Discussion:
There goes Johnny
(too old to reply)
DaveW
2005-01-23 22:35:34 UTC
Permalink
Sadly, Johnny Carson passed away this morning. First Steve Allen in
2000, then Jack Parr in 2004, now Johnny.

The entire trilogy that made the Tonight Show is gone. Leno just doesn't
compare.

So it goes.

DAve
Omer Suleimanagich
2005-01-23 22:52:22 UTC
Permalink
Leno and Letterman, just don't cut the mustard!

At least when Johnny was around people were led to think by his monologues,
and every politician (regardless of party affiliation) was under scrutiny.

Now, we are mentally polluted with the likes, of Limbaugh, Drudge, Imus, and
all the other mediocre ilk that is dumbing down America via the media!

Omer

P.S. Could Howard Stern's phone call to KGO have anything to do with
Powell's resignation?
Sadly, Johnny Carson passed away this morning. First Steve Allen in 2000,
then Jack Parr in 2004, now Johnny.
The entire trilogy that made the Tonight Show is gone. Leno just doesn't
compare.
So it goes.
DAve
frenchy
2005-01-23 23:22:47 UTC
Permalink
<<At least when Johnny was around people were led to think by his
monologues,
and every politician (regardless of party affiliation) was under
scrutiny.
Now, we are mentally polluted with the likes, of Limbaugh, Drudge,
Imus, and
all the other mediocre ilk that is dumbing down America via the
media!>>

Like Carson wouldn't have done about 5000 sex jokes about Clinton if
he'd still been doing the show? Don't see much difference between that
and Limbaugh or Leno or anybody else milking it like they did. Carson
wasn't doing the friggin' nightly news, it was a bunch of jokes.
Mark Oppat
2005-01-24 05:06:55 UTC
Permalink
Carson really connected with guests. Leno and Letterman seldom do...
they're there just to lead them into their prepared stories, or hype their
latest movie. Carson had MANY guests with nothing to plug, just to come
talk a while...and, those were some great moments. Jimmy Stewart comes to
mind. Dean Martin. others.

Mark Oppat
Post by frenchy
<<At least when Johnny was around people were led to think by his
monologues,
and every politician (regardless of party affiliation) was under scrutiny.
Now, we are mentally polluted with the likes, of Limbaugh, Drudge, Imus, and
all the other mediocre ilk that is dumbing down America via the
media!>>
Like Carson wouldn't have done about 5000 sex jokes about Clinton if
he'd still been doing the show? Don't see much difference between that
and Limbaugh or Leno or anybody else milking it like they did. Carson
wasn't doing the friggin' nightly news, it was a bunch of jokes.
Michael Black
2005-01-24 05:04:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Oppat
Carson really connected with guests. Leno and Letterman seldom do...
they're there just to lead them into their prepared stories, or hype their
latest movie. Carson had MANY guests with nothing to plug, just to come
talk a while...and, those were some great moments. Jimmy Stewart comes to
mind. Dean Martin. others.
Mark Oppat
Though I was too young, or not close enough, that seemed to be the case
for at least some legendary old time (well, 30 years ago) overnight talk show
hosts. I've read of people being on not because of what they were famous
for, but on because they were interested in other things to talk about.

I basically can't stand Art Bell, or whoever took over the show, because
it's narrowly focused on "weird" things. But every so often, someone
is on who isn't there to promote the "weird" and you can see how it
could be an interesting show. I though Wayne Green would be interesting
when he was on Art Bell, after all he always had plenty to say in his
editorials, but the times I've heard him he was just talking about "weird"
stuff. Admittedly I missed the first few times he was on, and maybe
he was interesting then.

Locally, talk radio has devolved to spending too much time talking
about what's already in the news, rather than all the interesting
things and people who are out there. They don't even get the out
of towners coming in to promote books these days. There just seems
no place for someone to talk about their hobbies, antique radios for
example, conveying something that interests them to the general public
and using it as a catalyst for talk. Radio has become so rigid in
form that the minute someone starts talking, they have to be interrupted
(or interrupt themselves) to make room for a commercial or the half hour
news break, or whatever. Even overnight, they no longer let the conversation
roam.

Michael
Post by Mark Oppat
Post by frenchy
<<At least when Johnny was around people were led to think by his
monologues,
and every politician (regardless of party affiliation) was under scrutiny.
Now, we are mentally polluted with the likes, of Limbaugh, Drudge, Imus, and
all the other mediocre ilk that is dumbing down America via the
media!>>
Like Carson wouldn't have done about 5000 sex jokes about Clinton if
he'd still been doing the show? Don't see much difference between that
and Limbaugh or Leno or anybody else milking it like they did. Carson
wasn't doing the friggin' nightly news, it was a bunch of jokes.
Bill Turner
2005-01-24 06:05:36 UTC
Permalink
AT THE SOUND OF THE CLICK THE TIME WILL BE 5 MINUTES.


CHECK MY WEBSITE: www.dialcover.com
Bill Turner, excuse caps, short answers, stroke.
Business SASE, each order a copy of The Pocket Resource Guide.
Mike Schultz
2005-01-24 13:56:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Black
Though I was too young, or not close enough, that seemed to be the case
for at least some legendary old time (well, 30 years ago) overnight talk show
hosts.
Two names come to mind. Long John Nebel and Jean Shepherd, both (for the
most part) from WOR in NY, 50's through the 70's.

Long John was the prototype for Art Bell. Yes, they both did (and do)
plenty of "weird stuff", which is just fine with me. What I personally
can't stand about Art Bell is that he spends so much time promoting his own
wacky end-of-the-world theories. Long John was a skeptic, but knew that
some of these people had interesting stories to tell, and let them do so.
It was a much less structured format that Art Bell's.

Most importantly, it was mostly done face-to-face in the studio, rather than
over the phone, and often there were multiple guests. There was more
discussion and interaction than you get now.

Nowadays, there is far too much reliance on listener participation. A
majority of callers are idiots who really have nothing much to say except to
kiss the host's butt and tell him how wonderful he is. That gets real
boring.

I think the master radio talker was Jean Shepherd. He was most noted for
his nightly 45 minute shows on WOR. He just talked about anything and
everything. He told stories about being a kid, disasterous dates, being a
ham radio operator, being in the Signal Corps in the Army, and his various
jobs in broadcasting. He would comment on current events and trends in
society (rarely politics though), music, TV, cars, and his own personal
travel experiences. He mocked the hell out of the commercials that he was
forced to play. On a good night, there was nothing before or since on the
radio that could compare.

He didn't have to rely on callers to fill the show, and he didn't need a
sidekick (like Stern, for example). He didn't need profanity, he didn't
need sex, he didn't need to wallow in the sewer (also like Stern).

Fortunately, tapes exist of hundreds of his shows, so much of his art has
not been lost to time. This material is freely available for download on
the Internet:

http://216.117.144.74/Catalogs/Fatheadcentral/Fathead_cat.html

He died in 1999. Now THAT was a loss.
--
Mike Schultz
Post by Michael Black
Post by Mark Oppat
Carson really connected with guests. Leno and Letterman seldom do...
they're there just to lead them into their prepared stories, or hype their
latest movie. Carson had MANY guests with nothing to plug, just to come
talk a while...and, those were some great moments. Jimmy Stewart comes to
mind. Dean Martin. others.
Mark Oppat
Though I was too young, or not close enough, that seemed to be the case
for at least some legendary old time (well, 30 years ago) overnight talk show
hosts. I've read of people being on not because of what they were famous
for, but on because they were interested in other things to talk about.
I basically can't stand Art Bell, or whoever took over the show, because
it's narrowly focused on "weird" things. But every so often, someone
is on who isn't there to promote the "weird" and you can see how it
could be an interesting show. I though Wayne Green would be interesting
when he was on Art Bell, after all he always had plenty to say in his
editorials, but the times I've heard him he was just talking about "weird"
stuff. Admittedly I missed the first few times he was on, and maybe
he was interesting then.
Locally, talk radio has devolved to spending too much time talking
about what's already in the news, rather than all the interesting
things and people who are out there. They don't even get the out
of towners coming in to promote books these days. There just seems
no place for someone to talk about their hobbies, antique radios for
example, conveying something that interests them to the general public
and using it as a catalyst for talk. Radio has become so rigid in
form that the minute someone starts talking, they have to be interrupted
(or interrupt themselves) to make room for a commercial or the half hour
news break, or whatever. Even overnight, they no longer let the conversation
roam.
Michael
Post by Mark Oppat
Post by frenchy
<<At least when Johnny was around people were led to think by his
monologues,
and every politician (regardless of party affiliation) was under scrutiny.
Now, we are mentally polluted with the likes, of Limbaugh, Drudge, Imus, and
all the other mediocre ilk that is dumbing down America via the
media!>>
Like Carson wouldn't have done about 5000 sex jokes about Clinton if
he'd still been doing the show? Don't see much difference between that
and Limbaugh or Leno or anybody else milking it like they did. Carson
wasn't doing the friggin' nightly news, it was a bunch of jokes.
frenchy
2005-01-24 07:14:12 UTC
Permalink
Carson really connected with guests. Leno and Letterman seldom do...
they're there just to lead them into their prepared stories, or hype
their
latest movie.>>

Well Carson did truckloads of of the latter too, Leno and Letterman
didn't invent it. Especially after he forced them to jettison the last
half hour with all the brainiac guests and concentrate on the meat and
potatoes for only one hour. I was just a toddler when Carson took over
for Paar, but after learning about Paar and watching Johnny for his
last 20 years of the show, I can easily imagine people thinking Carson
was a step down from Paar just like people say now that Leno is a step
down from Carson.
William Sommerwerck
2005-01-24 13:32:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by frenchy
Well Carson did truckloads of of the latter too, Leno and Letterman
didn't invent it. Especially after he forced them to jettison the last
half hour with all the brainiac guests and concentrate on the meat and
potatoes for only one hour. I was just a toddler when Carson took over
for Paar, but after learning about Paar and watching Johnny for his
last 20 years of the show, I can easily imagine people thinking Carson
was a step down from Paar just like people say now that Leno is a step
down from Carson.
From my perspective, _anyone_ is a step down from Steve Allen.

But these are all different people. Carson was a success for 30 years because he
knew when to step forward and when to hold back. He was appropriately modest,
and respected people, both on- and off-stage.
William Sommerwerck
2005-01-24 13:29:31 UTC
Permalink
Carson was hardly a tough, insightful interviewer -- but that wasn't the point
of the show.

More than any other host, I think, Carson was content to let the guest take the
spotlight, without worrying about whether he (Carson) looked clever or witty.
frenchy
2005-01-24 19:12:44 UTC
Permalink
Carson was more of a master host, had fun making fun of himself, quick
wit. Leno is a stand-up comic at heart and great at the monologue, but
wish he would try to have more fun when the jokes don't work, which
Carson was a master of. Carson, Leno, doesn't matter, I usually
couldn't stay up late enough to watch anything but the monologue
anyway! Now I can't even stay up for the news : ( Frenchy
Mark Oppat
2005-01-24 23:49:21 UTC
Permalink
Carson also played characters, and did voices, something Leno does not.
Another thing, Leno doesnt seem to have any close friends in the business
like Carson did.
Leno is a talented stand up, and a servicable interviewer.

Mark Oppat
Post by frenchy
Carson was more of a master host, had fun making fun of himself, quick
wit. Leno is a stand-up comic at heart and great at the monologue, but
wish he would try to have more fun when the jokes don't work, which
Carson was a master of. Carson, Leno, doesn't matter, I usually
couldn't stay up late enough to watch anything but the monologue
anyway! Now I can't even stay up for the news : ( Frenchy
You already know that
2005-01-25 07:09:11 UTC
Permalink
The odd thing is that I was watching the show when NBC broke in to
announce the Lennon shooting and I had just turned the set on for no
reason and tuned in the NBC station, and the special report was playing
about Carson's death. Kinda like reading the card in the envelope, just
not funny. Not only did he go as he wished, he made it known earlier
that week that he had no bad feelings with David Letterman by
contributing jokes to him.
Bill Turner
2005-01-25 14:12:08 UTC
Permalink
THE TONIGHT SHOW LAST WAS A RARE THING. ( I DON'T NORMALLY WATCH IT )
MANY CLIPS FROM HIS BEST SHOWS AND GUESTS FROM THE GOLDEN DAYS OF TV
RECOUNTING THOSE DAYS. EXCELLENT !


CHECK MY WEBSITE: www.dialcover.com
Bill Turner, excuse caps, short answers, stroke.
Business SASE, each order a copy of The Pocket Resource Guide.
frenchy
2005-01-25 14:57:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Oppat
Carson also played characters, and did voices, something Leno does not.
Another thing, Leno doesnt seem to have any close friends in the business
like Carson did.
Leno is a talented stand up, and a servicable interviewer.
Mark Oppat
I don't think Paar was much on skits either, I only saw hightlights of
him and they never showed any skit or characters of any kind. Although
I thought I heard Carson sort of took the aunt blabby character from
him (?) Letterman's never done any kind of character that I'm aware of
either. IMO Letterman was much better when he was much younger, very
droll, quiet and expressionless humor. Starting to like him now that
he's getting older though, he's not doing so much of that mugging and
loud goofy voices he was doing when he first started on CBS...Frenchy
BH
2005-01-23 22:58:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by DaveW
Sadly, Johnny Carson passed away this morning. First Steve Allen in
2000, then Jack Parr in 2004, now Johnny.
The entire trilogy that made the Tonight Show is gone. Leno just doesn't
compare.
So it goes.
DAve
I sure have missed Johnny since he quit the Tonight Show and your are
right about Leno. It is also sad that there is no video record of
Johnny's first shows. What an increditable wasteland television has become.
frenchy
2005-01-23 23:14:27 UTC
Permalink
What an increditable wasteland television has become.>>
So what else is new? TV has ALWAYS been 95% crap, 5% great. Nostalgia
makes people think otherwise.
xrongor
2005-01-24 00:59:54 UTC
Permalink
5% great? seems a bit optimistic <g>

randy
Post by frenchy
What an increditable wasteland television has become.>>
So what else is new? TV has ALWAYS been 95% crap, 5% great. Nostalgia
makes people think otherwise.
BH
2005-01-24 02:00:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by frenchy
What an increditable wasteland television has become.>>
So what else is new? TV has ALWAYS been 95% crap, 5% great.
Nope, not always.
frenchy
2005-01-24 02:30:09 UTC
Permalink
Well I suppose since there is so much more content now, it's much more
likely today that a show is crap. When there was only 3 networks and 3
hours a night of primetime 'big money' shows, they could concentrate
all the great talent (writers, actors, comedians) into that small area.
Now it's 300 channels, so of course the percentage is going to be much
much lower now, the talent is spread so thin. I just think that people
get a skewed view of how good tv was in the past, with 50 years worth
of tv whittled down to just the cream of the crop reruns that everybody
still loves today, but all the junk that was on back not only is not
remembered, it is not even known about to be forgotten in the first
place...Frenchy
William Sommerwerck
2005-01-24 13:33:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by frenchy
Well I suppose since there is so much more content now,
it's much more likely today that a show is crap.
I wonder if that's true. There is so much time to fill, networks are obliged to
put on the kind of "quality" programming they would have previously considered
above the taste of the audience.
frenchy
2005-01-23 23:19:35 UTC
Permalink
<<Leno just doesn't compare.>>

For some reason I think Leno could do a much better job, use more
talented 'players' like Steve Allen did. Just seems to me he has
become very lazy and doing very stupid bits like that lame game show
where he has idiots come on and give obviously prepared 'stupid'
answers to quiz questions. Or try to find idiots on the street. And
too heavy on the sex jokes in the monologue. I like the headlines
thing and the stupid ads though. But he just doesn't seem to be
getting any better, just staying the same.
Bruce Mercer
2005-01-23 23:08:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by DaveW
Sadly, Johnny Carson passed away this morning. First Steve Allen in
2000, then Jack Parr in 2004, now Johnny.
DAve
That is sad news. I have not had the tv on all day today and this is the
first I've heard of it.

Bruce
Bill Turner
2005-01-23 23:15:09 UTC
Permalink
IT WAS ON RADIO TOO.


CHECK MY WEBSITE: www.dialcover.com
Bill Turner, excuse caps, short answers, stroke.
Business SASE, each order a copy of The Pocket Resource Guide.
robert casey
2005-01-24 00:39:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bruce Mercer
That is sad news. I have not had the tv on all day today and this is the
first I've heard of it.
Can't blame ya after they talking up this northeast
snowstorm as if it would be the start of the next ice
age. Was only about 10 inches. We had 2 feet about
20 years ago here in NJ. Not that I'm complaining,
had to shovel all that (with a little help from the
friendly neighbor with the snow blower).

Have heard the old joke about America's birth rate
declining ever since Johnny Carson was on late night
TV....
Sal Brisindi
2005-01-24 00:45:26 UTC
Permalink
Robert,
I had 10 inches yesteday and about 10 inches today in Freehold NJ... I'm all
shoveled out!

Sal
Post by robert casey
Post by Bruce Mercer
That is sad news. I have not had the tv on all day today and this is the
first I've heard of it.
Can't blame ya after they talking up this northeast
snowstorm as if it would be the start of the next ice
age. Was only about 10 inches. We had 2 feet about
20 years ago here in NJ. Not that I'm complaining,
had to shovel all that (with a little help from the
friendly neighbor with the snow blower).
Have heard the old joke about America's birth rate
declining ever since Johnny Carson was on late night
TV....
R Oxley
2005-01-24 05:06:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sal Brisindi
Robert,
I had 10 inches yesteday and about 10 inches today in Freehold NJ... I'm all
shoveled out!
Sal
80F in my part of San Diego. I was wearing shorts, t-shirt, and sandals on
my porch, observing spots and prominences on the Sun with my Hydrogen Alpha
solar telescope. Not even any pesky clouds today. Almost got a sunburn. All
the snow from our last storm has melted from Mount Palomar.

Sorry, wish I could pipe some of this back East for you folks. Looks like
you could really use some!

Bob
Roger D Johnson
2005-01-24 12:55:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by R Oxley
80F in my part of San Diego. I was wearing shorts, t-shirt, and sandals on
my porch, observing spots and prominences on the Sun with my Hydrogen Alpha
solar telescope. Not even any pesky clouds today. Almost got a sunburn. All
the snow from our last storm has melted from Mount Palomar.
Sorry, wish I could pipe some of this back East for you folks. Looks like
you could really use some!
Bob
What wimpy weather! It's a manly -12 here in Maine this AM.
No danger of heatstroke or skin cancer here!

73, Roger
--
Remove tilde (~) to reply

Remember the USS Liberty (AGTR-5)
http://ussliberty.org/
Tom Adkins
2005-01-24 01:52:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by DaveW
Sadly, Johnny Carson passed away this morning. First Steve Allen in
2000, then Jack Parr in 2004, now Johnny.
The entire trilogy that made the Tonight Show is gone. Leno just doesn't
compare.
So it goes.
DAve
My prayers to Johnny and his family. It seems that this is the end of the "great
ones" who I recall from my childhood and early teen years. I raelly wish my best to
Jay Leno, he is trying to keep alive an American Tradition. Although he will never be
Johnny Carson, he has his own style. He was even humble enough to keep the name,
instead of calling it the "Jay Leno Show". The Tonight Show wasn't Johnny Carson, but
Johnny was The Tonight Show for ~30 years. Johnny inherited it from someone else, I
think it was Jack Paar? (Let me know if this is incorrect). Let's all remember Johnny
with Love and wish Mr. Leno the best, he's had some mighty big shoes to fill since he
took over The Tonight Show.
Tom
Mark Oppat
2005-01-24 05:10:07 UTC
Permalink
You know who is surprisingly good?
John McEnrow! (SP?) The tennis player.On MSNBC I think. I was sure he would
be an egotistical bomb. But, really interesting usually, and he really
seems to LISTEN to guests. Which, is Leno's biggest downfall.

Mark Oppat
Post by Tom Adkins
Post by DaveW
Sadly, Johnny Carson passed away this morning. First Steve Allen in
2000, then Jack Parr in 2004, now Johnny.
The entire trilogy that made the Tonight Show is gone. Leno just doesn't
compare.
So it goes.
DAve
My prayers to Johnny and his family. It seems that this is the end of the "great
ones" who I recall from my childhood and early teen years. I raelly wish my best to
Jay Leno, he is trying to keep alive an American Tradition. Although he will never be
Johnny Carson, he has his own style. He was even humble enough to keep the name,
instead of calling it the "Jay Leno Show". The Tonight Show wasn't Johnny Carson, but
Johnny was The Tonight Show for ~30 years. Johnny inherited it from someone else, I
think it was Jack Paar? (Let me know if this is incorrect). Let's all remember Johnny
with Love and wish Mr. Leno the best, he's had some mighty big shoes to fill since he
took over The Tonight Show.
Tom
frenchy
2005-01-24 07:07:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Oppat
You know who is surprisingly good?
John McEnrow! (SP?) The tennis player.On MSNBC I think. I was sure he would
be an egotistical bomb. But, really interesting usually, and he really
seems to LISTEN to guests. Which, is Leno's biggest downfall.
Mark Oppat
To Leno's credit he has improved on interviewing, it's his bits that
are still lacking...Frenchy
Phil B
2005-01-24 05:50:37 UTC
Permalink
This news hit me harder than usual because I have fond memories of
watching Johnny throughout his TV career. I remember watching "Who Do
You Trust" when I was at home sick at times in elementary school. I
watched Jack Paar and then Johny on the Tonight Show. I always watched
Johny on Friday nights when I was a teenager. And when I was in my 20s &
30s, I still loved watching him on the Tonight Show.

One thing that I always remember is when he had some bimbo guest on that
said something stupid. He would look at the camera with a kind of
stupid, beady-eyed, perplexed look. It always got a laugh. I always
think of this when I see George Bush on TV. His normal look uncannily
resembles Johnny's perplexed look.

Phi B
Post by DaveW
Sadly, Johnny Carson passed away this morning. First Steve Allen in
2000, then Jack Parr in 2004, now Johnny.
The entire trilogy that made the Tonight Show is gone. Leno just doesn't
compare.
So it goes.
DAve
DaveW
2005-01-24 21:42:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phil B
One thing that I always remember is when he had some bimbo guest on that
said something stupid. He would look at the camera with a kind of
stupid, beady-eyed, perplexed look. It always got a laugh. I always
think of this when I see George Bush on TV. His normal look uncannily
resembles Johnny's perplexed look.
Phi B
Now that you mention it, you're right. But that's not what I was going
to post about.

I've had some time to think about Johnny's passing away. A few things
come to mind. First was the time I saw him, driving his Delorean in
Santa Monica, must have been about 1985 or so. Then I got to thinking
about all the great times I had watching his show. He was worth losing
sleep over. Leno, Letterman, etc. just aren't. The Johnny Carson Show
(nobody ever called it "Tonight" during his era, except Ed that is) was
an American institution.

A few moments:

Floyd R. Turbot, commenting on the gas crisis and the new popularity of
Japanses cars (1970s): "Americans are supposed to drive big cars. Why
one of our greatest presidents, Harry Truman had a sign on his desk that
that says, 'The Buick stops here.'"

Carnac: "Sis, Boom, Bah (What noise does a sheep make when it explodes)"

Daily...."It was so hot in the valley today...how hot was it?"

Burbank: "Welcome to Burbank's famed Restaurant Row, featuring Vinnie's
Little Touch of Newark. Where the mobsters meet the lobsters. "

Perhaps he was funniest when the jokes didn't go well. Breaking into a
soft shoe.

His best line: "Or not." followed by a sheepish look.

Interestingly, the family has announced that there will not be a
memorial service. If there was one, it would clearly be the most star
studded event this town has seen in years.

I've missed Johnny since 1992. Now I miss him more.

David
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