Question about GE Superadio III and batteries

[Dennis M]

Hello radio enthusiasts,

I own a General Electric "Superadio III" that I purchased new back around
2001. I've never had any problems with it until this June when I was
vacationing on the beach down in Florida. The FM band suddenly went out and
only a low static sound could be heard, but the AM band seemed to pick up
as normal. Turning the radio off and back on again didn't fix the problem.
But when I tried it indoors the next day, the FM seemed to pick up fine.
But when I was at a local beach yesterday, the same thing happened.

My question is, could weak batteries possibly cause this kind of behavior?
The 6 "D" batteries it uses were put in around 2003 or 2004, and I've just
replaced them with fresh Duracells (it also has an AC cord, BTW). I just
assumed if it was the batteries, normally strong stations would begin to
come in very weak -- not just not be received at all.

Or, could intense heat in the direct sun possibly cause this problem? This
radio has pretty good reception when it's working properly and I'd hate to
think it's gone south. TIA for any input.

[Steven]

Post by Dennis M
Hello radio enthusiasts,
I own a General Electric "Superadio III" that I purchased new back around
2001. I've never had any problems with it until this June when I was
vacationing on the beach down in Florida. The FM band suddenly went out and
only a low static sound could be heard, but the AM band seemed to pick up
as normal. Turning the radio off and back on again didn't fix the problem.
But when I tried it indoors the next day, the FM seemed to pick up fine.
But when I was at a local beach yesterday, the same thing happened.
My question is, could weak batteries possibly cause this kind of behavior?
The 6 "D" batteries it uses were put in around 2003 or 2004, and I've just
replaced them with fresh Duracells (it also has an AC cord, BTW). I just
assumed if it was the batteries, normally strong stations would begin to
come in very weak -- not just not be received at all.
Or, could intense heat in the direct sun possibly cause this problem? This
radio has pretty good reception when it's working properly and I'd hate to
think it's gone south. TIA for any input.

It's probably in need of tweaking, cleaning or maybe the screw fell
out of the antenna (mine fell out I don't know when so don't laugh too
hard. Thing's made in China/mondodogkillerland)

[s***@gmail.com]

Before the thread went off in a completely different direction,

Post by Dennis M
Hello radio enthusiasts,
I own a General Electric "Superadio III" that I purchased new back around
2001. I've never had any problems with it until this June when I was
vacationing on the beach down in Florida. The FM band suddenly went out and
only a low static sound could be heard, but the AM band seemed to pick up
as normal. Turning the radio off and back on again didn't fix the problem.
But when I tried it indoors the next day, the FM seemed to pick up fine.
But when I was at a local beach yesterday, the same thing happened.
My question is, could weak batteries possibly cause this kind of behavior?

Yes! That is *exactly* what happens as the batteries come to the end
of their lives in the Superadio.

As that time draws close, you'll have to turn the radio up a little
more to get the same volume, but you probably won't notice. Then, the
sound will become a little distorted, and you might eventually notice
that. Not too much later, what you describe will happen. (The FM
section takes more power than the AM and will stop working sooner.)

When you tried the radio the next day, as you wrote above, it worked
because the batteries had had enough time to build up a little charge,
not because it was inside (although some might argue the heat of the
outdoors could have increased the resistance of the components in the
radio more than it could have increased the output of the
simultaneously-dying batteries and was, thus, a factor). You'll
sometimes be able to operate the FM a little longer if you do it at a
low level.....

[William Sommerwerck]

Post by s***@gmail.com
As that time draws close, you'll have to turn the radio up a little
more to get the same volume, but you probably won't notice. Then, the
sound will become a little distorted, and you might eventually notice
that. Not too much later, what you describe will happen. (The FM
section takes more power than the AM and will stop working sooner.)

I've never seen a radio in which the tuner sections are separately powered.
Compared to the output stages, they draw little current.

And very few radios -- the GE P970A being an exception -- have separate AM
and FM tuners. We never established if this was the case with the
Superradio.

[craigm]

Post by William Sommerwerck

Post by s***@gmail.com
As that time draws close, you'll have to turn the radio up a little
more to get the same volume, but you probably won't notice. Then, the
sound will become a little distorted, and you might eventually notice
that. Not too much later, what you describe will happen. (The FM
section takes more power than the AM and will stop working sooner.)

I've never seen a radio in which the tuner sections are separately
powered. Compared to the output stages, they draw little current.

Since the topic of this thread is the GE Superadio, you should look at the
schematics of the radio to provide some validity to your statement.
According to the schematics, both the Superadio I and Superadio III remove
power to the tuner circuits not being used.

While the tune sections may draw little current relative to the audio
circuitry when performing at full output, at lower output, the extra
current can have a significant impact on battery life.

Post by William Sommerwerck
And very few radios -- the GE P970A being an exception -- have separate AM
and FM tuners. We never established if this was the case with the
Superradio.

Your apparent definition of tuner refers to the variable capacitor. Again,
your statement can be verified by looking at the schematics. The Superadio
I uses a single 6 section variable capacitor. The Superadio III uses
varactors for tuning. They are driven from a single source.

However, if your definition of tuner includes all the circuitry from the
antenna to detected audio, the Superadio I and III do not have separate
tuners as they both have common IF circuits.

[jim menning]

Post by craigm

Post by William Sommerwerck

Post by s***@gmail.com
As that time draws close, you'll have to turn the radio up a little
more to get the same volume, but you probably won't notice. Then, the
sound will become a little distorted, and you might eventually notice
that. Not too much later, what you describe will happen. (The FM
section takes more power than the AM and will stop working sooner.)

I've never seen a radio in which the tuner sections are separately
powered. Compared to the output stages, they draw little current.

Since the topic of this thread is the GE Superadio, you should look
at the schematics of the radio to provide some validity to your
statement. According to the schematics, both the Superadio I and
Superadio III remove power to the tuner circuits not being used.

My statement is completely valid -- I've never seen one.

You need to take a closer look at portable radios. Your limited experience
does not make for a valid generalization.

Post by craigm
While the tune sections may draw little current relative to the audio
circuitry when performing at full output, at lower output, the extra
current can have a significant impact on battery life.

If they draw little current -- relative to the audio stages -- then they
cannot have a "significant" impact on battery life.

Note that I referred to _full_ output, at lower output the difference can be
significant.
For example, with the volume all the way down, the current draw an a
Superadio II is 15.7 mA for AM and 22.5 mA for FM. The FM front end draws
6.8 mA more than the AM one. At low volumes these numbers increase to
18-20 mA for AM and 25-29 mA for FM. Since FM seems to draw 7 mA more than
AM, listening to AM and leaving the FM powered up may increase consumption
by about 33%.
At higher volumes the current for AM is 38-50 mA and for FM is 48-70 mA.
At these levels, the increase in current is a smaller percentage. (I'll let
you figure out the math.)
The above numbers are measured on a real radio, no conjecture. The ranges
are indicated because the program content caused variations in the
readings.

Post by craigm

Post by William Sommerwerck
And very few radios -- the GE P970A being an exception -- have
separate AM and FM tuners. We never established if this was the
case with the Superradio.

However, if your definition of tuner includes all the circuitry from the
antenna to detected audio, the Superadio I and III do not have separate
tuners as they both have common IF circuits.

I asked about this several weeks ago, but no one responded.
If these radios have common IF strips, then what sections of the circuitry
are there to be shut off when not in use?

RF amps, mixer, oscillator, portions of the IF that are not common.

FM/AM radios commonly use the same transistors for the RF amplifier, the
mixer, and LO. Are these Superadios different?

Yes they are different. This question shows how little you know about what
you are talking about.
For more info on the SR III look here.
http://users.netonecom.net/~swordman/Radio/GEsrIIIAlign.htm

That's not fair craigm. You are using actual data and facts vs. an unsupported
general conjecture.

And you're right about William not knowing what he's talking about in this case.
That seems to be the norm for many around here. Defending one's previous posts by
pleading ignorance doesn't make up for making false generalized statements. Once the
misinformation is posted, many will unfortunately believe it to be true. Thanks for
offering the factual counterpoints.

[William Sommerwerck]

That's not fair craigm. You are using actual data and facts vs.
an unsupported general conjecture.
And you're right about William not knowing what he's talking
about in this case.

Excuse me?

I serviced electronic equipment throughout high school and long after. Most
of the general statements I made are correct.

Disputing the plausibility of a claim has nothing to do with whether I know
what I'm talking about. I would rather be wrong because I was applying
common sense, than be right because I blindly believed what someone else
claims.

Radios tend to be designed as cheaply as possible. That means using as many
common circuits as possible, and avoiding "unnecessary" components (such as
switches to disabled "unused" circuitry). Radios such as the P-970 and
Superadio are the exceptions, not the rule.

[jim menning]

Post by William Sommerwerck

That's not fair craigm. You are using actual data and facts vs.
an unsupported general conjecture.
And you're right about William not knowing what he's talking
about in this case.

Excuse me?
I serviced electronic equipment throughout high school and long after. Most
of the general statements I made are correct.
Disputing the plausibility of a claim has nothing to do with whether I know
what I'm talking about. I would rather be wrong because I was applying
common sense, than be right because I blindly believed what someone else
claims.
Radios tend to be designed as cheaply as possible. That means using as many
common circuits as possible, and avoiding "unnecessary" components (such as
switches to disabled "unused" circuitry). Radios such as the P-970 and
Superadio are the exceptions, not the rule.

Was I not clear enough for you?

We were talking about Superadios. They are obviously something you know little or
nothing about. Hence the quote: "And you're right about William not knowing what
he's talking about in this case."

[Brenda Ann]

Post by Dennis M
Hello radio enthusiasts,
I own a General Electric "Superadio III" that I purchased new back around
2001. I've never had any problems with it until this June when I was
vacationing on the beach down in Florida. The FM band suddenly went out and
only a low static sound could be heard, but the AM band seemed to pick up
as normal. Turning the radio off and back on again didn't fix the problem.
But when I tried it indoors the next day, the FM seemed to pick up fine.
But when I was at a local beach yesterday, the same thing happened.
My question is, could weak batteries possibly cause this kind of behavior?
The 6 "D" batteries it uses were put in around 2003 or 2004, and I've just
replaced them with fresh Duracells (it also has an AC cord, BTW). I just
assumed if it was the batteries, normally strong stations would begin to
come in very weak -- not just not be received at all.
Or, could intense heat in the direct sun possibly cause this problem? This
radio has pretty good reception when it's working properly and I'd hate to
think it's gone south. TIA for any input.

Make sure you have all the batteries installed properly. how long till it
goes out?

[Lou D]

Post by Brenda Ann

Post by Dennis M
Hello radio enthusiasts,
I own a General Electric "Superadio III" that I purchased new back around
2001. I've never had any problems with it until this June when I was
vacationing on the beach down in Florida. The FM band suddenly went out and
only a low static sound could be heard, but the AM band seemed to pick up
as normal. Turning the radio off and back on again didn't fix the problem.
But when I tried it indoors the next day, the FM seemed to pick up fine.
But when I was at a local beach yesterday, the same thing happened.
My question is, could weak batteries possibly cause this kind of behavior?
The 6 "D" batteries it uses were put in around 2003 or 2004, and I've just
replaced them with fresh Duracells (it also has an AC cord, BTW). I just
assumed if it was the batteries, normally strong stations would begin to
come in very weak -- not just not be received at all.
Or, could intense heat in the direct sun possibly cause this problem? This
radio has pretty good reception when it's working properly and I'd hate to
think it's gone south. TIA for any input.

Make sure you have all the batteries installed properly. how long till it
goes out?

[Dennis M]

Post by Brenda Ann
Make sure you have all the batteries installed properly.

I did, when I replaced the batteries this morning I wiped all the contacts
clean and removed a little sand that had gotten into the compartment. I
keep a piece of clear package-sealing tape outside the compartment because
the door had this bad habit of popping off and the heavy batteries would
fall out sometimes if you didn't exactly "kid glove" it.

Post by Brenda Ann
how long till it goes out?

Yesterday it seemed to go out after just about 15 minutes -- I'd just
gotten out into the middle of the lake and settled in on my raft with a
cool one -- but I think it had been on for an hour or two when it went out
in Florida (and then it was shaded by a beach umbrella).

Must be the dog days of summer, I guess I should put a towel on top of it
and see if that helps.

[William Sommerwerck]

It sounds like something connected with temperature, which could be any
number of things.

Now this is a stretch, and a guess, but... Some classic GE transistor radios
of 30+ years ago (such as the P975A) had completely separate AM and FM
tuners. * If this is true for the SupeRadio, it might simplify
troubleshooting.

I'd recommend taking a screwdriver and a can of freeze spray with you to the
beach.

* GE made its own transistors, and as separating the tuners didn't increase
the number of RF and IF elements required, the cost of wholly separate
tuners was only a bit higher than combining them.

[Brenda Ann]

Post by William Sommerwerck
It sounds like something connected with temperature, which could be any
number of things.
Now this is a stretch, and a guess, but... Some classic GE transistor radios
of 30+ years ago (such as the P975A) had completely separate AM and FM
tuners. * If this is true for the SupeRadio, it might simplify
troubleshooting.
I'd recommend taking a screwdriver and a can of freeze spray with you to the
beach.
* GE made its own transistors, and as separating the tuners didn't increase
the number of RF and IF elements required, the cost of wholly separate
tuners was only a bit higher than combining them.

The SRIII doesn't have a tuner at all. It's a supremely crappy varactor
tuned set. If only the FM is going out, it's likely that the heat is
building up enough that the LO is failing. One thing to try is take a white
towel with you the next time you go out, and fold it over at least once and
let it on top of the radio to prevent the UV from the sun reaching that
lovely black (solar collector) cabinet.

[Dennis M]

Post by Brenda Ann
The SRIII doesn't have a tuner at all. It's a supremely crappy varactor
tuned set. If only the FM is going out, it's likely that the heat is
building up enough that the LO is failing. One thing to try is take a white
towel with you the next time you go out, and fold it over at least once and
let it on top of the radio to prevent the UV from the sun reaching that
lovely black (solar collector) cabinet.

I'm going to try that but if the problem keeps up I may just buy another
one of these babies, looks like some vendor on Amazon is selling them for
$46.44 (and evidently, they're called "RCA" radios now).

Some people might swear off this model or even the brand if they had a
problem like mine but I figure if a portable radio lasts a good 7 years and
after you've drug it through hell & half of Georgia you've gotten your
money's worth.

[RHF]

Post by Dennis M

Post by Brenda Ann
The SRIII doesn't have a tuner at all. It's a supremely crappy varactor
tuned set. If only the FM is going out, it's likely that the heat is
building up enough that the LO is failing. One thing to try is take a white
towel with you the next time you go out, and fold it over at least once and
let it on top of the radio to prevent the UV from the sun reaching that
lovely black (solar collector) cabinet.

I'm going to try that but if the problem keeps up I may just buy another
one of these babies,

- looks like some vendor on Amazon is selling them for
- $46.44 (and evidently, they're called "RCA" radios now).

Loading Image...

Post by Dennis M
Some people might swear off this model or even the brand if they had a
problem like mine but I figure if a portable radio lasts a good 7 years and
after you've drug it through hell & half of Georgia you've gotten your
money's worth.

[William Sommerwerck]

It seems odd that, as this radio (supposedly) uses varactor tuning... Why
doesn't Thomson go all the way and include full digital tuning? Given the
current cheapness of electronics, it should add no more that $10 or $15 to
the price.

[Jeffrey D Angus]

Post by William Sommerwerck
It seems odd that, as this radio (supposedly) uses varactor tuning... Why
doesn't Thomson go all the way and include full digital tuning? Given the
current cheapness of electronics, it should add no more that $10 or $15 to
the price.

Varactor tuning is no different from using a mechanical tuning
capacitor. You're just rotating the shaft on a resistor instead.

To make the leap to digitial tuning, you have to have a PLL (Phase
locked loop) and all the attendant dividers, and the display and
lastly, some degree of accuracy for the reference. If the display
reads 930 AM, it really should be 930, not somewhere else.

It really isn't as simple as "Just a couple more parts."

Jeff

[John Stone]

Post by Jeffrey D Angus

Post by William Sommerwerck
It seems odd that, as this radio (supposedly) uses varactor tuning... Why
doesn't Thomson go all the way and include full digital tuning? Given the
current cheapness of electronics, it should add no more that $10 or $15 to
the price.

Varactor tuning is no different from using a mechanical tuning
capacitor. You're just rotating the shaft on a resistor instead.
To make the leap to digitial tuning, you have to have a PLL (Phase
locked loop) and all the attendant dividers, and the display and
lastly, some degree of accuracy for the reference. If the display
reads 930 AM, it really should be 930, not somewhere else.
It really isn't as simple as "Just a couple more parts."

I don't think Thomson is even involved in consumer electronics products
anymore. I believe they sold off the RCA name to Audiovox, and when you go
to the GE brand, you only get info on telephone products. Brand names are
totally meaningless these days.

[m***@panic.xx.tudelft.nl]

Post by John Stone
I don't think Thomson is even involved in consumer electronics products
anymore. I believe they sold off the RCA name to Audiovox, and when you go

Maybe not in the US, but as far as I know their CE division is still
alive.

[John Stone]

Post by m***@panic.xx.tudelft.nl

Post by John Stone
I don't think Thomson is even involved in consumer electronics products
anymore. I believe they sold off the RCA name to Audiovox, and when you go

Maybe not in the US, but as far as I know their CE division is still
alive.

From Wikipedia:
Later in 2004, Thomson set up a joint venture (TTE) with China's TCL, giving
to TCL all manufacturing of RCA and Thomson television and DVD products and
making TCL the global leader in TV manufacturing. (Thomson still controls
the brands themselves and licenses them to TTE.) At the time, TCL was hailed
as the first Chinese company to compete on the international stage with
large international corporations. Thomson initially retained all marketing
of TTE's products, but transferred that to TTE in 2005.

In December 2006, Thomson agreed to sell its consumer electronics accessory
business, including rights to the RCA name for consumer electronics
accessories, to Audiovox.

So, I guess they are still "alive", if you want to call it that.

[Ken G.]

Speaking of newer RCA tv sets . I worked on one last week . It was an 04
or 06 cant remember but it was that modern again silver color .

When i got the back off it was a full blown PHILIPS tv inside .

[Steven]

Post by Ken G.
Speaking of newer RCA tv sets . I worked on one last week . It was an 04
or 06 cant remember but it was that modern again silver color .
When i got the back off it was a full blown PHILIPS tv inside .

But was it made by Funai in China then? Don't they make half of
everything?

Somebody has a certain Sony recent CRT projector that's suposed to be
the very best for 18,000+ but with the air of I need to justify this
to eBay buyers he needs to change his diaper anyway.

[Steven]

Post by Jeffrey D Angus

Post by William Sommerwerck
It seems odd that, as this radio (supposedly) uses varactor tuning... Why
doesn't Thomson go all the way and include full digital tuning? Given the
current cheapness of electronics, it should add no more that $10 or $15 to
the price.

Varactor tuning is no different from using a mechanical tuning
capacitor. You're just rotating the shaft on a resistor instead.
To make the leap to digitial tuning, you have to have a PLL (Phase
locked loop) and all the attendant dividers, and the display and
lastly, some degree of accuracy for the reference. If the display
reads 930 AM, it really should be 930, not somewhere else.
It really isn't as simple as "Just a couple more parts."
Jeff
--
RESTRICTED AREA. Anyone intruding shall immediately become subject to
the jurisdiction of military law. Intruders will be subject to lethal
force, without warning, and on sight. USE OF DEADLY FORCE IS AUTHORIZED
under the Internal Security Act of 1950.

I've got a Sansui T-80 that proves that. It will shift frequency and
often goes completely out of band then sometimes back to the wrong
frequency on the band and the counter is given voltages that create a
gibberish reading for the LCD display driver. All for a varactor or
two that are tweaked or fed an out-of spec signal. I don't have any
dual displays with a similar problem...my SX-3600s are always
displaying the STEREO graphic but that seems to be a common thing for
that model.

[William Sommerwerck]

Post by Steven

Post by Jeffrey D Angus
It really isn't as simple as "Just a couple more parts."

I've got a Sansui T-80 that proves that. It will shift frequency
and often goes completely out of band then sometimes back
to the wrong frequency on the band and the counter is given
voltages that create a gibberish reading for the LCD display
driver. All for a varactor or two that are tweaked or fed an
out-of spec signal. I don't have any dual [sic] displays with a
similar problem... my SX-3600s are always displaying the
STEREO graphic but that seems to be a common thing for
that model.

Uh... you seem to be talking about a defective product.

[William Sommerwerck]

Post by Jeffrey D Angus

Post by William Sommerwerck
It seems odd that, as this radio (supposedly) uses varactor tuning...
Why doesn't Thomson go all the way and include full digital tuning?
Given the current cheapness of electronics, it should add no more
than $10 or $15 to the price.

Varactor tuning is no different from using a mechanical tuning
capacitor. You're just rotating the shaft on a resistor instead.

It's fundamentally different -- you can change the rotational "position" of
the "capacitor" _electrically_, without moving parts.

Post by Jeffrey D Angus
To make the leap to digitial tuning, you have to have a PLL (phase
locked loop) and all the attendant dividers, and the display and
lastly, some degree of accuracy for the reference. If the display
reads 930 AM, it really should be 930, not somewhere else.
It really isn't as simple as "Just a couple more parts."

I didn't say that. But I'll gladly allow myself to retroactively be accused
of having said that.

Once you have varactor tuning, not much is needed to convert to digital
tuning. How about just three parts -- a reference crystal, a custom IC, and
an LCD? Digital tuning is pretty simple stuff.

I have a Sony Discman with a complete stereo-FM + AM digital tuner crammed
into a tiny case about the volume of your thumb, dangling from the end of
the headphone cord. The complete unit sold for $180; the replacement
tuner/cable assembly went for $100. Because this device is a cleverly
miniaturized piece of electronics, one can assume it's rather more expensive
than what a larger, bulkier device would cost.

[John Stone]

Post by William Sommerwerck
It seems odd that, as this radio (supposedly) uses varactor tuning...
Why doesn't Thomson go all the way and include full digital tuning?
Given the current cheapness of electronics, it should add no more
than $10 or $15 to the price.

If you're referring to adding $10-$15 to the retail price, on the
manufacturing level that would be about $1 to $1.50 in additional parts.
Possible, but I'd guess the addition of a crystal, a microcomputer, and a
display, would probably add more than that. In the end, you would have a
very different radio, and not necessarily a better one. Microprocessors add
their own problems. These radios do offer great bang for the buck, but
honestly I think the term "super" is misapplied.

[Brenda Ann]

Post by William Sommerwerck
It seems odd that, as this radio (supposedly) uses varactor tuning... Why
doesn't Thomson go all the way and include full digital tuning? Given the
current cheapness of electronics, it should add no more that $10 or $15 to
the price.

It would also add to the noise floor, and make most of the advantage of the
tuned RF amp front end null. My biggest gripe about the SRIII is the abysmal
dial calibration. I've yet to see one that tracks across the dial. And any
time I've attempted to calibrate one (I've done dozens) the best I can get
it to do is be semi-accurate at the top and bottom, while off by several
10's of KHz in the middle.

[William Sommerwerck]

Post by Brenda Ann

Post by William Sommerwerck
It seems odd that, as this radio (supposedly) uses varactor tuning...
Why doesn't Thomson go all the way and include full digital tuning?
Given the current cheapness of electronics, it should add no more
that $10 or $15 to the price.

It would also add to the noise floor, and make most of the advantage
of the tuned RF amp front end null.

Is that _necessarily_ so?

On the AM band, the added "noise" would be primarily FM modulation, creating
sideband noise not unlike the sideband noise generated by flutter on analog
audio recorders. How audible would that be?

[Brenda Ann]

Post by William Sommerwerck

Post by Brenda Ann

Post by William Sommerwerck
It seems odd that, as this radio (supposedly) uses varactor tuning...
Why doesn't Thomson go all the way and include full digital tuning?
Given the current cheapness of electronics, it should add no more
that $10 or $15 to the price.

It would also add to the noise floor, and make most of the advantage
of the tuned RF amp front end null.

Is that _necessarily_ so?
On the AM band, the added "noise" would be primarily FM modulation, creating
sideband noise not unlike the sideband noise generated by flutter on analog
audio recorders. How audible would that be?

I've yet to hear a cheap (or even a multi-hundred dollar) radio with a
perfectly noiseless PLL. My Grundig (a REAL Grundig) Satellite 650 even has
PLL generated noise that brings up the noise floor at least 2-3dB, and it's
filtered and sheilded to the max (and cost $1100 new).

[Steven]

Post by Brenda Ann

Post by William Sommerwerck

Post by Brenda Ann

Post by William Sommerwerck
It seems odd that, as this radio (supposedly) uses varactor tuning...
Why doesn't Thomson go all the way and include full digital tuning?
Given the current cheapness of electronics, it should add no more
that $10 or $15 to the price.

It would also add to the noise floor, and make most of the advantage
of the tuned RF amp front end null.

Is that _necessarily_ so?
On the AM band, the added "noise" would be primarily FM modulation, creating
sideband noise not unlike the sideband noise generated by flutter on analog
audio recorders. How audible would that be?

I've yet to hear a cheap (or even a multi-hundred dollar) radio with a
perfectly noiseless PLL. My Grundig (a REAL Grundig) Satellite 650 even has
PLL generated noise that brings up the noise floor at least 2-3dB, and it's
filtered and sheilded to the max (and cost $1100 new).

I haven't looked at mine in a couple weeks but as I figured the PLL
would make tuning in some stations more difficult. As they are, the
bandwidth position being in wide actually hinders tuning in a little 1
kw signal at 1450 in Notus called KIOV, 1350 KTIK that's more than a
kilowatt and even 1490 KCID in Caldwell (*because I live next to a 5
kw DA-N at 1380). If the station was running a narrower signal to
start you have to tune in narrow mode first anyway. It's picky that
way. Batteries affect that too, FM more pronounced than AM, of course.

The FM antenna screw fell out a long time ago too, tried to replace it
and at some point the thing got broken anyway. Good thing it has screw
terminals for FM.

[george conklin]

Post by Brenda Ann

Post by William Sommerwerck
It seems odd that, as this radio (supposedly) uses varactor tuning... Why
doesn't Thomson go all the way and include full digital tuning? Given the
current cheapness of electronics, it should add no more that $10 or $15 to
the price.

It would also add to the noise floor, and make most of the advantage of
the tuned RF amp front end null. My biggest gripe about the SRIII is the
abysmal dial calibration. I've yet to see one that tracks across the dial.
And any time I've attempted to calibrate one (I've done dozens) the best I
can get it to do is be semi-accurate at the top and bottom, while off by
several 10's of KHz in the middle.

Does anyone know what the actual AM senitivity of these "super" radio might
be. Healthkit used to provide sensitivity for its AM tuners, but so far all
they talk about for the GE radio is doubletalk.

[Brenda Ann]

Post by george conklin

Post by Brenda Ann

Post by William Sommerwerck
It seems odd that, as this radio (supposedly) uses varactor tuning... Why
doesn't Thomson go all the way and include full digital tuning? Given the
current cheapness of electronics, it should add no more that $10 or $15 to
the price.

It would also add to the noise floor, and make most of the advantage of
the tuned RF amp front end null. My biggest gripe about the SRIII is the
abysmal dial calibration. I've yet to see one that tracks across the
dial. And any time I've attempted to calibrate one (I've done dozens) the
best I can get it to do is be semi-accurate at the top and bottom, while
off by several 10's of KHz in the middle.

Does anyone know what the actual AM senitivity of these "super" radio
might be. Healthkit used to provide sensitivity for its AM tuners, but so
far all they talk about for the GE radio is doubletalk.

I've not seen any quantification of the AM sensitivity on the radio.
However, with the tuned RF stage, it is much more sensitive than most of the
AM/FM only portables on the market. I have one out in my shop on the shelf
that I use for verification of stations when I'm trying to realign a set
that's been overtwiddled. I'll see if I can get at least a uV reading from
my o-scope for a good listenable by-ear signal. I don't have the equipment
for a fancy uV/m or dBuV reading.

[george conklin]

Post by Brenda Ann

Post by george conklin

Post by Brenda Ann

Post by William Sommerwerck
It seems odd that, as this radio (supposedly) uses varactor tuning... Why
doesn't Thomson go all the way and include full digital tuning? Given the
current cheapness of electronics, it should add no more that $10 or $15 to
the price.

It would also add to the noise floor, and make most of the advantage of
the tuned RF amp front end null. My biggest gripe about the SRIII is the
abysmal dial calibration. I've yet to see one that tracks across the
dial. And any time I've attempted to calibrate one (I've done dozens)
the best I can get it to do is be semi-accurate at the top and bottom,
while off by several 10's of KHz in the middle.

Does anyone know what the actual AM senitivity of these "super" radio
might be. Healthkit used to provide sensitivity for its AM tuners, but
so far all they talk about for the GE radio is doubletalk.

I've not seen any quantification of the AM sensitivity on the radio.
However, with the tuned RF stage, it is much more sensitive than most of
the AM/FM only portables on the market. I have one out in my shop on the
shelf that I use for verification of stations when I'm trying to realign a
set that's been overtwiddled. I'll see if I can get at least a uV reading
from my o-scope for a good listenable by-ear signal. I don't have the
equipment for a fancy uV/m or dBuV reading.

Well, it seems to me we need to check the GE radios against a radio which
has a known sensitivity level on the AM band. I have to use my so-called
Superradio with a tunable external loop to picked up most stations I want.
So it is not very super. And I have the Radio Shack version too. About
half the time it has distored audio, and other half it works ok, but with
inferior tone. Ok, they are cheap, I'll grant you that. C. Crane and
Company advertise a real super radio, the Mini CC radio. Has anyone tried
it for $149.95?

[Brenda Ann]

Post by george conklin
Well, it seems to me we need to check the GE radios against a radio
which has a known sensitivity level on the AM band. I have to use my
so-called Superradio with a tunable external loop to picked up most
stations I want. So it is not very super. And I have the Radio Shack
version too. About half the time it has distored audio, and other half it
works ok, but with inferior tone. Ok, they are cheap, I'll grant you
that. C. Crane and Company advertise a real super radio, the Mini CC
radio. Has anyone tried it for $149.95?

If you need an external tuned loop, then you need an alignment. If it's an
SRIII, then you're probably out of luck. If it's an SRII or SRI, then you
can get it properly aligned and it would be pretty much unbeatable for AM
and FM reception.

[Omer Suleimanagich]

http://www.hardwaremaniac.com/reviews/ccrane/ccradioplus_01.htm

Is this the mother of all AM radios that is being sold today?!

Omer

Post by Brenda Ann

Post by george conklin
Well, it seems to me we need to check the GE radios against a radio
which has a known sensitivity level on the AM band. I have to use my
so-called Superradio with a tunable external loop to picked up most
stations I want. So it is not very super. And I have the Radio Shack
version too. About half the time it has distored audio, and other half
it works ok, but with inferior tone. Ok, they are cheap, I'll grant you
that. C. Crane and Company advertise a real super radio, the Mini CC
radio. Has anyone tried it for $149.95?

If you need an external tuned loop, then you need an alignment. If it's an
SRIII, then you're probably out of luck. If it's an SRII or SRI, then you
can get it properly aligned and it would be pretty much unbeatable for AM
and FM reception.

[Steven]

Post by Omer Suleimanagich
http://www.hardwaremaniac.com/reviews/ccrane/ccradioplus_01.htm
Is this the mother of all AM radios that is being sold today?!

Post by Brenda Ann

Post by george conklin
Well, it seems to me we need to check the GE radios against a radio
which has a known sensitivity level on the AM band. I have to use my
so-called Superradio with a tunable external loop to picked up most
stations I want. So it is not very super. And I have the Radio Shack
version too. About half the time it has distored audio, and other half
it works ok, but with inferior tone. Ok, they are cheap, I'll grant you
that. C. Crane and Company advertise a real super radio, the Mini CC
radio. Has anyone tried it for $149.95?

If you need an external tuned loop, then you need an alignment. If it's an
SRIII, then you're probably out of luck. If it's an SRII or SRI, then you
can get it properly aligned and it would be pretty much unbeatable for AM
and FM reception.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That's a Crosley WLW

[Steven]

Post by george conklin

Post by Brenda Ann

Post by george conklin

Post by Brenda Ann

Post by William Sommerwerck
It seems odd that, as this radio (supposedly) uses varactor tuning... Why
doesn't Thomson go all the way and include full digital tuning? Given the
current cheapness of electronics, it should add no more that $10 or $15 to
the price.

It would also add to the noise floor, and make most of the advantage of
the tuned RF amp front end null. My biggest gripe about the SRIII is the
abysmal dial calibration. I've yet to see one that tracks across the
dial. And any time I've attempted to calibrate one (I've done dozens)
the best I can get it to do is be semi-accurate at the top and bottom,
while off by several 10's of KHz in the middle.

Does anyone know what the actual AM senitivity of these "super" radio
might be. Healthkit used to provide sensitivity for its AM tuners, but
so far all they talk about for the GE radio is doubletalk.

I've not seen any quantification of the AM sensitivity on the radio.
However, with the tuned RF stage, it is much more sensitive than most of
the AM/FM only portables on the market. I have one out in my shop on the
shelf that I use for verification of stations when I'm trying to realign a
set that's been overtwiddled. I'll see if I can get at least a uV reading
from my o-scope for a good listenable by-ear signal. I don't have the
equipment for a fancy uV/m or dBuV reading.

Well, it seems to me we need to check the GE radios against a radio which
has a known sensitivity level on the AM band. I have to use my so-called
Superradio with a tunable external loop to picked up most stations I want.
So it is not very super. And I have the Radio Shack version too. About
half the time it has distored audio, and other half it works ok, but with
inferior tone. Ok, they are cheap, I'll grant you that. C. Crane and
Company advertise a real super radio, the Mini CC radio. Has anyone tried
it for $149.95?

Brenda Ann has a National or two and a well-modified Pioneer TX-6500
tuner she built as I understand (I donated to it). All of the above
would run rings around this thing I am certain. A great DX set by GE
was probably made and it had tubes and was a tombstone.

[Scott W. Harvey]

Post by george conklin
Well, it seems to me we need to check the GE radios against a radio which
has a known sensitivity level on the AM band. I have to use my so-called
Superradio with a tunable external loop to picked up most stations I want.
So it is not very super. And I have the Radio Shack version too. About
half the time it has distored audio, and other half it works ok, but with
inferior tone. Ok, they are cheap, I'll grant you that. C. Crane and
Company advertise a real super radio, the Mini CC radio. Has anyone tried
it for $149.95?

I have a CC radio...It's pretty good, but I wouldn't pay $150.00 for one
(I paid $20.00 for mine). Like the superradio, It exploits the rather
poor sensitivity of most tabletop radios of today by adding an RF stage.
If I were a consumer shopping for a sensitive radio, I'd buy one of the
many shortwave portables on the market in the same price range. They
have just about everything the C Crane radio has and shortwave to boot.

I also have the GE superradios I, II and III. my superradio III is
sensitive but is just about inferior in every other way to the other two
earlier sets. The superradio II is the best of the three for AM DX. I
also have the radio shack version-it appears to be a superradio III with
sloppy attention to proper alignment at the factory.

-Scott

[Scott W. Harvey]

Post by Brenda Ann
It would also add to the noise floor, and make most of the advantage of the
tuned RF amp front end null. My biggest gripe about the SRIII is the abysmal
dial calibration. I've yet to see one that tracks across the dial. And any
time I've attempted to calibrate one (I've done dozens) the best I can get
it to do is be semi-accurate at the top and bottom, while off by several
10's of KHz in the middle.

There WAS a digital version of the GE superadio, called the superadio
plus, made in 1982. It is rumored to be noisier than the analog version
(big surprise) and was double the price, which kind of negated the whole
cheap-but-sensitive idea behind the superadio series. It was not a big
seller, and is somewhat rare today.

-Scott

[Steven]

Post by Scott W. Harvey

Post by Brenda Ann
It would also add to the noise floor, and make most of the advantage of the
tuned RF amp front end null. My biggest gripe about the SRIII is the abysmal
dial calibration. I've yet to see one that tracks across the dial. And any
time I've attempted to calibrate one (I've done dozens) the best I can get
it to do is be semi-accurate at the top and bottom, while off by several
10's of KHz in the middle.

There WAS a digital version of the GE superadio, called the superadio
plus, made in 1982. It is rumored to be noisier than the analog version
(big surprise) and was double the price, which kind of negated the whole
cheap-but-sensitive idea behind the superadio series. It was not a big
seller, and is somewhat rare today.
-Scott

GREAT

horney toads...

Are you on union time?

[RHF]

Post by Scott W. Harvey

Post by Brenda Ann
It would also add to the noise floor, and make most of the advantage of the
tuned RF amp front end null. My biggest gripe about the SRIII is the abysmal
dial calibration. I've yet to see one that tracks across the dial. And any
time I've attempted to calibrate one (I've done dozens) the best I can get
it to do is be semi-accurate at the top and bottom, while off by several
10's of KHz in the middle.

There WAS a digital version of the GE superadio, called the superadio
plus, made in 1982. It is rumored to be noisier than the analog version
(big surprise) and was double the price, which kind of negated the whole
cheap-but-sensitive idea behind the superadio series. It was not a big
seller, and is somewhat rare today.
-Scott

SWH,

I have one of the "Digital" versions of the GE Superadio
Model # 7-2882A that was made in Hong Kong an you
are right on all counts.

But it is 'nice' to be able to push a Preset and Listen
to one of your Favorite Radio Stations - Especially
when the GE Superadio III has such a badly aligned
Analog Tuning Scale.

David Moisan's - GE SuperRadio FAQ - Technical Information
http://mysite.verizon.net/vze20h45/radio/superadio/gesr_tech.html
http://mysite.verizon.net/vze20h45/radio/superadio/gesr_faq.html

Currently for the $-Money-$ the Redsun RP2100 AM/MW
Shortwave Radio seems to be one of the 'better' AM/MW
Radios that would 'fit' the Super-Radio characteristics and
has a very good 'mono' FM Tuner and Sound Too !

The "Redsun Shortwave Radios" Group at Yahoo
REDSUN => http://groups.yahoo.com/group/redsun-shortwave-radios/

~ RHF
.
.
. .

[William Sommerwerck]

I have one of the "digital" versions of the GE Superadio,
model 7-2882A, that was made in Hong Kong, and you
are right on all counts.

This model was likely the outgrowth of the 7-4650 clock-radio, which had
direct-frequency entry through a keypad plus six presets. Its list price was
around $90.

Whoever designed this radio was actually thinking. As the AM and FM bands
have numerically unique frequencies, you simply punched in the one you want,
and the band automatically switched. You don't have to select AM or FM
first.

[Stephanie Weil]

Post by William Sommerwerck
Whoever designed this radio was actually thinking. As the AM and FM bands
have numerically unique frequencies, you simply punched in the one you want,
and the band automatically switched. You don't have to select AM or FM
first.

I have a Grundig portable with shortwave that allows you to do that
too. Type in 1130 and the radio automatically switches you to 1130
khz MW. Type in 95.50 and it tunes to 95.5 Mhz FM, And so on....

You can also just enter something like 31 or 25 or 49 and it switches
you to that desired shortwave band directly. I like that radio. :)

Stephanie Weil
On the other side of the planet

[Steven]

Post by Stephanie Weil
Stephanie Weil
On the other side of the planet

When did you move to New Jersey?

[William Sommerwerck]

I'd like to clarify a point in the Superadio FAQ...

"Unlike most AM/FM radios the SR III has additional RF stages..."

I've never seen an FM tuner that didn't have an RF stage (with the exception
of a weird direct-conversion circuit shown in the GE Transistor Manual). It
would be less-incorrect to say

"Unlike most table or pocket radios, the Superadio's AM tuner has an RF
stage for greatly improved sensitivity."

[Brenda Ann]

Post by William Sommerwerck
I'd like to clarify a point in the Superadio FAQ...
"Unlike most AM/FM radios the SR III has additional RF stages..."
I've never seen an FM tuner that didn't have an RF stage (with the exception
of a weird direct-conversion circuit shown in the GE Transistor Manual). It
would be less-incorrect to say
"Unlike most table or pocket radios, the Superadio's AM tuner has an RF
stage for greatly improved sensitivity."

Most AM/FM radios don't have an RF stage. Only higher end home systems and
car radios do anymore for the most part. The front ends on your average
portable are just an LO section and an input tuning section (antenna). Even
average home systems don't have the additional RF stage. Makes for horrid
sensitivity and even worse overloading problems close in.

[William Sommerwerck]

Most AM/FM radios don't have an RF stage. Only higher-end home
systems and car radios do anymore for the most part. The front ends
on your average portable are just an LO section and an input tuning
section (antenna). Even average home systems don't have the additional
RF stage. Makes for horrid sensitivity and even worse overload problems
close in.

Show me any commercial FM radio or tuner, at any price, that _doesn't_ have
an RF stage. I find it very, very, very hard to believe that there are such
radios.

I can think of only one _good_ reason for omitting a RF stage, and that only
in digital tuners. As such tuners require a varactor-tuned front end, and
varactors aren't especially linear... Fill in the blank.

I'd like to comment on the phrase "additional RF stage". An RF stage is, of
course, an additional stage compared to a radio without one, but in this
phrase "additional" modifies RF, not stage. I believe a few radios have had
multiple RF stages, but this is uncommon.

After writing the above, I pulled out the manual for my Yaesu ("joy of Hams'
desiring") FT-1000D. It seems the RF stage can be bypassed for reception of
very strong signals. I'm not sure what this proves or disproves with respect
to this discussion, but it's interesting.

[Steven]

Post by William Sommerwerck

Most AM/FM radios don't have an RF stage. Only higher-end home
systems and car radios do anymore for the most part. The front ends
on your average portable are just an LO section and an input tuning
section (antenna). Even average home systems don't have the additional
RF stage. Makes for horrid sensitivity and even worse overload problems
close in.

Show me any commercial FM radio or tuner, at any price, that _doesn't_ have
an RF stage. I find it very, very, very hard to believe that there are such
radios.
I can think of only one _good_ reason for omitting a RF stage, and that only
in digital tuners. As such tuners require a varactor-tuned front end, and
varactors aren't especially linear... Fill in the blank.
I'd like to comment on the phrase "additional RF stage". An RF stage is, of
course, an additional stage compared to a radio without one, but in this
phrase "additional" modifies RF, not stage. I believe a few radios have had
multiple RF stages, but this is uncommon.
After writing the above, I pulled out the manual for my Yaesu ("joy of Hams'
desiring") FT-1000D. It seems the RF stage can be bypassed for reception of
very strong signals. I'm not sure what this proves or disproves with respect
to this discussion, but it's interesting.

It explains why two-three of my tuners (more) have a hard time with
1350 and 1450 when 1380 is nearby and a couple would bleed 1450 in two
other spots when KIOV was still on Clay Peak. Thanks much!

[Jeffrey D Angus]

Post by William Sommerwerck

Most AM/FM radios don't have an RF stage. Only higher-end home
systems and car radios do anymore for the most part.

Show me any commercial FM radio or tuner, at any price, that _doesn't_ have
an RF stage.

Brenda was refering to the AM section of the radio I think.
Most commercial "broadcast" radios now _are_ crap. The
manufacturers figured (probably rightly) that there's nothing
worth listening to on AM, so they don't waste the money in
production to make the AM portion decent.

Post by William Sommerwerck
After writing the above, I pulled out the manual for my Yaesu ("joy of Hams'
desiring") FT-1000D. It seems the RF stage can be bypassed for reception of
very strong signals. I'm not sure what this proves or disproves with respect
to this discussion, but it's interesting.

Bypassed? Look again, I suspect it has a 20 dB attenuator switched
in ahead of it.

Jeff

[William Sommerwerck]

Post by Jeffrey D Angus

Post by William Sommerwerck
After writing the above, I pulled out the manual for my Yaesu
("joy of Hams' desiring") FT-1000D. It seems the RF stage can
be bypassed for reception of very strong signals.

Bypassed? Look again, I suspect it has a 20 dB attenuator
switched in ahead of it.

Nope. The manual -- apparently written by 'murcans -- explicitly says
"bypassed". The schematics are so complex I don't have time to unscramble
them to confirm or deny.

[Brenda Ann]

Post by Jeffrey D Angus

Post by William Sommerwerck

Most AM/FM radios don't have an RF stage. Only higher-end home
systems and car radios do anymore for the most part.

Show me any commercial FM radio or tuner, at any price, that _doesn't_ have
an RF stage.

Brenda was refering to the AM section of the radio I think.
Most commercial "broadcast" radios now _are_ crap. The
manufacturers figured (probably rightly) that there's nothing
worth listening to on AM, so they don't waste the money in
production to make the AM portion decent.

Nope, was referring to both FM and AM sections.

Shoot... a lot of current generation boom boxes and such not only don't have
an RF amp in the front end (well.. they sort of do.. more to come), they
don't even have an IF. All they are is a very high gain amplifier with a
detector. To make an AM radio, they connect an antenna, single section
variable capacitor, a power source, and a small audio amp. The whole
receiver section is in a three lead package (TO-92?)

[Uncle Peter]

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze20h45/radio/superadio/gesr_plus.html


Here you go... the original price, timeframe and model number are
discussed. Pretty much supports Brenda's recollections. They also
have some info on the frontends of the other models on the website.

Pete

[jim menning]

Post by Uncle Peter
http://mysite.verizon.net/vze20h45/radio/superadio/gesr_plus.html
Here you go... the original price, timeframe and model number are
discussed. Pretty much supports Brenda's recollections. They also
have some info on the frontends of the other models on the website.
Pete

Yes Pete, I have been there many times before, but no one has provided any pictures,
box art, or advertising to indicate it was indeed marketed as such. Others are
claiming the name is right on the radio itself. Mine is sitting right in front of
me, it has no Superadio nameplate. I only want confirmation I can verify, not to
start a battle.

[RHF]

Post by jim menning

Post by Uncle Peter
http://mysite.verizon.net/vze20h45/radio/superadio/gesr_plus.html
Here you go... the original price, timeframe and model number are
discussed. Pretty much supports Brenda's recollections. They also
have some info on the frontends of the other models on the website.
Pete

Yes Pete, I have been there many times before, but no one has provided any pictures,
box art, or advertising to indicate it was indeed marketed as such. Others are
claiming the name is right on the radio itself. Mine is sitting right in front of
me, it has no Superadio nameplate. I only want confirmation I can verify, not to
start a battle.

JM,

You are Right a the GE Model 7-2882_; the so called
"Digital" GE Superadio -or- GE Superadio Plus; does
not have the "Superadio" name on the Radio.

-But- It does have a few of the Superadio features like
the 200mm Ferrite Antenna and the 5-Inch Speaker.
- - - The Look of a GE Superadio ! ? ! ?

However - What Defines a GE Superadio is the RF
and IF Circuitry that is 'internal' to the Radio and
whether the GE Model 7-2882_ has it or not is . . .
To-Be-Determined [.]

? Question ? Does anyone 'know' for sure -if- the
GE Model 7-2882_ has the same 'internal' RF and
IF Circuitry as the GE Superadios I and II ? ? ?

i want to know ~ RHF
.
.
. .

[Scott W. Harvey]

Post by jim menning

Post by Uncle Peter
http://mysite.verizon.net/vze20h45/radio/superadio/gesr_plus.html
Here you go... the original price, timeframe and model number are
discussed. Pretty much supports Brenda's recollections. They also
have some info on the frontends of the other models on the website.
Pete

Yes Pete, I have been there many times before, but no one has provided any pictures,
box art, or advertising to indicate it was indeed marketed as such. Others are
claiming the name is right on the radio itself. Mine is sitting right in front of
me, it has no Superadio nameplate. I only want confirmation I can verify, not to
start a battle.

Someone posted pictures on the binaries of the radio, and also the
original box I think as well. That was a couple of years ago.

-Scott

[jim menning]

Post by jim menning

Post by Uncle Peter
http://mysite.verizon.net/vze20h45/radio/superadio/gesr_plus.html
Here you go... the original price, timeframe and model number are
discussed. Pretty much supports Brenda's recollections. They also
have some info on the frontends of the other models on the website.
Pete

Yes Pete, I have been there many times before, but no one has provided any
pictures, box art, or advertising to indicate it was indeed marketed as such.
Others are claiming the name is right on the radio itself. Mine is sitting right
in front of me, it has no Superadio nameplate. I only want confirmation I can
verify, not to start a battle.

Someone posted pictures on the binaries of the radio, and also the original box I
think as well. That was a couple of years ago.

I had asked for pictures here and in other forums in the past, but to date haven't
seen any. I have the radio here, and contrary to other claims, there is no
indication on it that it is a "Superadio".

[Steven]

Post by jim menning

Post by jim menning

Post by Uncle Peter
http://mysite.verizon.net/vze20h45/radio/superadio/gesr_plus.html
Here you go... the original price, timeframe and model number are
discussed. Pretty much supports Brenda's recollections. They also
have some info on the frontends of the other models on the website.
Pete

Yes Pete, I have been there many times before, but no one has provided any
pictures, box art, or advertising to indicate it was indeed marketed as such.
Others are claiming the name is right on the radio itself. Mine is sitting right
in front of me, it has no Superadio nameplate. I only want confirmation I can
verify, not to start a battle.

Someone posted pictures on the binaries of the radio, and also the original box I
think as well. That was a couple of years ago.

I had asked for pictures here and in other forums in the past, but to date haven't
seen any. I have the radio here, and contrary to other claims, there is no
indication on it that it is a "Superadio".- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

It's a tag of legend. Something people add by association and it
sticks. Counsel may step down.

[Uncle Peter]

Post by jim menning

Post by Uncle Peter
http://mysite.verizon.net/vze20h45/radio/superadio/gesr_plus.html

Yes Pete, I have been there many times before, but no one has provided any
pictures, box art, or advertising to indicate it was indeed marketed as
such. Others are claiming the name is right on the radio itself. Mine is
sitting right in front of me, it has no Superadio nameplate. I only want
confirmation I can verify, not to start a battle.

I'll go stand in the corner again. Sniff...

[jim menning]

Post by Uncle Peter

Post by jim menning

Post by Uncle Peter
http://mysite.verizon.net/vze20h45/radio/superadio/gesr_plus.html

Yes Pete, I have been there many times before, but no one has provided any
pictures, box art, or advertising to indicate it was indeed marketed as such.
Others are claiming the name is right on the radio itself. Mine is sitting right
in front of me, it has no Superadio nameplate. I only want confirmation I can
verify, not to start a battle.

I'll go stand in the corner again. Sniff...

There should still be some pretzels and chips from the last time I was there.

[Jeffrey D Angus]

Post by jim menning

Post by Uncle Peter
I'll go stand in the corner again. Sniff...

There should still be some pretzels and chips from the
last time I was there.

You left chips and pretzels? The only ones I could find
were under the seat cushions.

Jeff

[Michael A. Terrell]

Post by Jeffrey D Angus

Post by jim menning

Post by Uncle Peter
I'll go stand in the corner again. Sniff...

There should still be some pretzels and chips from the
last time I was there.

You left chips and pretzels? The only ones I could find
were under the seat cushions.
Jeff

You weren't quick enough! Randy beat you to them, and the cooler of
beer.

[jim menning]

Post by Jeffrey D Angus

Post by jim menning

Post by Uncle Peter
I'll go stand in the corner again. Sniff...

There should still be some pretzels and chips from the
last time I was there.

You left chips and pretzels? The only ones I could find
were under the seat cushions.
Jeff

That's why I didn't eat them.

[Registered User]

On Sun, 5 Aug 2007 19:29:25 -0500, "jim menning"

Post by jim menning

Post by Uncle Peter
http://mysite.verizon.net/vze20h45/radio/superadio/gesr_plus.html
Here you go... the original price, timeframe and model number are
discussed. Pretty much supports Brenda's recollections. They also
have some info on the frontends of the other models on the website.
Pete

Yes Pete, I have been there many times before, but no one has provided any pictures,
box art, or advertising to indicate it was indeed marketed as such. Others are
claiming the name is right on the radio itself. Mine is sitting right in front of
me, it has no Superadio nameplate. I only want confirmation I can verify, not to
start a battle.

http://www.amazon.com/7-2887-Superadio-III-Portable-Radio/dp/B00000J061/ref=pd_bbs_3/105-3046249-5190854?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1186685294&sr=8-3
or
http://tinyurl.com/yvy9bh

[The Shadow]

Post by Registered User
On Sun, 5 Aug 2007 19:29:25 -0500, "jim menning"

Post by jim menning

Post by Uncle Peter
http://mysite.verizon.net/vze20h45/radio/superadio/gesr_plus.html
Here you go... the original price, timeframe and model number are
discussed. Pretty much supports Brenda's recollections. They also
have some info on the frontends of the other models on the website.
Pete

Yes Pete, I have been there many times before, but no one has provided any pictures,
box art, or advertising to indicate it was indeed marketed as such.
Others are
claiming the name is right on the radio itself. Mine is sitting right in front of
me, it has no Superadio nameplate. I only want confirmation I can verify, not to
start a battle.

http://www.amazon.com/7-2887-Superadio-III-Portable-Radio/dp/B00000J061/ref=pd_bbs_3/105-3046249-5190854?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1186685294&sr=8-3
or
http://tinyurl.com/yvy9bh

Click on customer image - shows front panel --- sez SUPERRADIO
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/customer-images/B00000J061/sr=8-3/qid=1186685294/ref=cm_ciu_pdp_images_all/105-9100526-1415604?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1186685294&sr=8-3#gallery

[dxAce]

Post by The Shadow

Post by Registered User
On Sun, 5 Aug 2007 19:29:25 -0500, "jim menning"

Post by jim menning

Post by Uncle Peter
http://mysite.verizon.net/vze20h45/radio/superadio/gesr_plus.html
Here you go... the original price, timeframe and model number are
discussed. Pretty much supports Brenda's recollections. They also
have some info on the frontends of the other models on the website.
Pete

Yes Pete, I have been there many times before, but no one has provided any pictures,
box art, or advertising to indicate it was indeed marketed as such.
Others are
claiming the name is right on the radio itself. Mine is sitting right in front of
me, it has no Superadio nameplate. I only want confirmation I can verify, not to
start a battle.

http://www.amazon.com/7-2887-Superadio-III-Portable-Radio/dp/B00000J061/ref=pd_bbs_3/105-3046249-5190854?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1186685294&sr=8-3
or
http://tinyurl.com/yvy9bh

Click on customer image - shows front panel --- sez SUPERRADIO
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/customer-images/B00000J061/sr=8-3/qid=1186685294/ref=cm_ciu_pdp_images_all/105-9100526-1415604?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1186685294&sr=8-3#gallery

That's nice, but it's merely a Superadio III... I believe they're discussing the Superadio+, (model 7-2882_).

dxAce
Michigan
USA

[Steven]

Post by Registered User
On Sun, 5 Aug 2007 19:29:25 -0500, "jim menning"

Post by jim menning

Post by Uncle Peter
http://mysite.verizon.net/vze20h45/radio/superadio/gesr_plus.html
Here you go... the original price, timeframe and model number are
discussed. Pretty much supports Brenda's recollections. They also
have some info on the frontends of the other models on the website.
Pete

Yes Pete, I have been there many times before, but no one has provided any pictures,
box art, or advertising to indicate it was indeed marketed as such.
Others are
claiming the name is right on the radio itself. Mine is sitting right in front of
me, it has no Superadio nameplate. I only want confirmation I can verify, not to
start a battle.

http://www.amazon.com/7-2887-Superadio-III-Portable-Radio/dp/B00000J0...
or
http://tinyurl.com/yvy9bh

Click on customer image - shows front panel --- sez SUPERRADIOhttp://www.amazon.com/gp/product/customer-images/B00000J061/sr=8-3/qi...- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Wrong model. It's not a 288*7*, but a much older *GE* 288_2_ and the
2882 was not an analog tuning radio, it was direct entry frequency
synthesis.

[RHF]

For One and All,
.
Which Are The "Actual" GE Superadios ?
- - - - -and- - - - -
Which Are The 'So-Called' GE Superadios ?
.
OK - Here are the actual GE Superadio Model Numbers :
.
# 1 - GE {Superadio I} Model # 7-2880
"The Original" GE SUPERADIO I = "Super Radio"
-but- It did not have The Words "Superadio" on the Radio [.]
General Electric Model # 7-2880
Speaker: Single/One 5".
Single Band Width.
Knobs: Black Body with Chrome Base Ring.
Size: 13"W - 9"H - 3.25"D
Badging 'General (GE) Electric' on the speaker grill.
Printed on the Tuning Band Scale: "Long Range" & "High Selectivity"
Made in HONG KONG and other locations
.
# 2 - GE Superadio I I Model # 7-2885
The GE SR II = GE SUPERADIO II = "Super Radio"
General Electric Model # 7-2885
Speakers: Dual 5" and 1".
Single Band Width.
Knobs: Chrome (color) Body including the bases.
Size 13"W - 9"H - 3.25"D.
Badging: General (GE) Electric "SUPERADIO II" on the speaker grill.
Printed on the Tuning Band Scale: "Long Range" & "High Selectivity"
Made in MALAYSIA and other locations from 1987 until 1994.
.
# 3 - GE Superadio I I I Model # 7-2887
The GE SR III = GE SUPERADIO III = "Super Radio"
General Electric Model # 7-2887
Speakers: Dual 6" & 1.5".
Dual Band Widths: Wide & Normal.
Knobs: Black Body with Chrome Base Ring.
Size: 13.5"W - 9"H - 3.75"D.
Badging: "GE" Square on the speaker grill.
Printed on the Tuning Band Scale: "Long Range" & "High Selectivity"
Made In CHINA ?
.
Here are some 'so-called' GE "Superadio" Model Numbers
they are either Digital / Cassette / Boom Boxes /Radios :
Series - 3-6015 / 3-6025 / 3-6045
Series - 3-5266 / 3-5268 / 3-5280
.
Model # 3-5280 is the so-called GE {Superadio} Cassette
.
Model # 7-2882 is the so-called GE Digital {Superadio} Plus
.
Then there is the 'so-called' GE "Superadio" CUB
Model Number 7-2881 that was 'smaller' than the
GE Superadios and used "C" Batteries
.
NOTE - The Radio Shack Optimus Models #s 12-603
and/ 12-903 may be 'look-a-likes' on the outside
-but- They do not have the GE Superadios Circuity
on the inside [.]
.
READ THESE "REC.RADIO.SHORTWAVE" MESSAGES
.
GE Superadios for Dummies [Was: OT: Superadio ID]
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/0d2291622654ceff
.
GE Superadios for Dummies [ GE Super Radios I - II - III ]
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/b040155dce5df31c
.
A Compilation of GE Superadio Posts
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/2518c853aaf62053
.
.
the ge model 7-2885 is in-fact a super radio
-and- imho the best of the best ~ RHF
.
.
. .

Post by Steven

Post by Registered User
On Sun, 5 Aug 2007 19:29:25 -0500, "jim menning"

Post by jim menning

Post by Uncle Peter
http://mysite.verizon.net/vze20h45/radio/superadio/gesr_plus.html
Here you go... the original price, timeframe and model number are
discussed. Pretty much supports Brenda's recollections. They also
have some info on the frontends of the other models on the website.
Pete

Yes Pete, I have been there many times before, but no one has provided any
pictures,
box art, or advertising to indicate it was indeed marketed as such.
Others are
claiming the name is right on the radio itself. Mine is sitting right in front of
me, it has no Superadio nameplate. I only want confirmation I can verify, not to
start a battle.

http://www.amazon.com/7-2887-Superadio-III-Portable-Radio/dp/B00000J0...
or
http://tinyurl.com/yvy9bh

Click on customer image - shows front panel --- sez SUPERRADIOhttp://www.amazon.com/gp/product/customer-images/B00000J061/sr=8-3/qi...Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Wrong model. It's not a 288*7*, but a much older *GE* 288_2_ and the
2882 was not an analog tuning radio, it was direct entry frequency
synthesis.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

[RHF]

= = = On Aug 5, 4:57 pm, "Uncle Peter" <***@cox.net>
wrote:
-
- http://mysite.verizon.net/vze20h45/radio/superadio/gesr_plus.html
-
- Here you go... the original price, timeframe and model number are
- discussed. Pretty much supports Brenda's recollections. They also
- have some info on the frontends of the other models on the website.
-
- Pete

.
Pete - TYVM for the Link/URL ~ RHF
.
The GE Superadio Plus : A Report -by- T. David Zimmerman
.
http://mysite.verizon.net/vze20h45/radio/superadio/gesr_plus.html
.
{ The GE Superadio Plus= The "Digital" GE Superadio }
.
.
. .

[Steven]

Post by Uncle Peter
http://mysite.verizon.net/vze20h45/radio/superadio/gesr_plus.html
Here you go... the original price, timeframe and model number are
discussed. Pretty much supports Brenda's recollections. They also
have some info on the frontends of the other models on the website.
Pete

Where are the PICTURES?

[Brenda Ann]

Post by William Sommerwerck

Most AM/FM radios don't have an RF stage. Only higher-end home
systems and car radios do anymore for the most part. The front ends
on your average portable are just an LO section and an input tuning
section (antenna). Even average home systems don't have the additional
RF stage. Makes for horrid sensitivity and even worse overload problems
close in.

Show me any commercial FM radio or tuner, at any price, that _doesn't_ have
an RF stage. I find it very, very, very hard to believe that there are such
radios.
I can think of only one _good_ reason for omitting a RF stage, and that only
in digital tuners. As such tuners require a varactor-tuned front end, and
varactors aren't especially linear... Fill in the blank.
I'd like to comment on the phrase "additional RF stage". An RF stage is, of
course, an additional stage compared to a radio without one, but in this
phrase "additional" modifies RF, not stage. I believe a few radios have had
multiple RF stages, but this is uncommon.

Again, if you open up the average portable, or most cheap home stereos, you
will find only two sections to the FM tuner:

1) Local oscillator
2) Antenna tuning

Same for the AM section.

I have seen very very VERY few portables with an RF amp section for FM. Less
rare were ones with an RF amp for AM, such as the Channel Master 8
transistor sets.

[William Sommerwerck]

Post by Brenda Ann
Again, if you open up the average portable, or most cheap home
1) Local oscillator
2) Antenna tuning
Same for the AM section.

That goes without saying, as AM radios have generally lacked an RF stage for
nigh-on to 70 years. It just isn't needed for most local reception.

Post by Brenda Ann
I have seen very very VERY few portables with an RF amp section
for FM. Less rare were ones with an RF amp for AM, such as the
Channel Master 8 transistor sets.

I'm in a bad position to argue this point, because I rarely (ie, at this
point in my life, never) service radios. But what you're saying goes
completely against my experience -- and the service manuals for equipment I
own.

The 40-year-old Sony FM/AM radios I own (TFM 825 / 850, EFM 117, & others)
have RF stages for FM, and none for AM. The schematic for the GE P975A
(which I don't own) shows an RF stage for the FM section, none for the AM.
Ditto for all the GE clock-radios I've owned.

I went through the Sams TSM-47 transistor-radio book (dated 12/1964), which
I purchased to get additional data on the Sony EFM-117 I hoped to restore.
Of the 28 models covered, only two AM radios (Ross RE-1902 & Truetone
DC3429B) had an RF stage, and _no_ FM radio lacked one.

The RF stage in an FM tuner * performs a number of functions, one of the
most-important being to bring up the RF signal to a level where it can
override the noise generated in the conversion process. Has the conversion
process, and the transistors used to perform it, improved so much that the
RF stage can be discarded? I don't know, but I doubt it.

Another function is gain. The lost gain has to be made up somewhere,
presumably with another IF stage, which requires parts and has to be
aligned, just as an RF stage. The net savings aren't going to amount to
much.

An FM tuner without an RF stage would be hopelessly insensitive, to the
point where few consumers would find it acceptable ("This-here goddamn radio
don't pick up no stations").

I don't like gainsaying someone who regularly services electronic equipment
(and who usually knows what they're talking about). But I just don't buy
this. (I read Scott Harvey's comments before posting this, and I still find
it hard to believe.) Throughout the history of FM radios, an RF stage has
been the normal state of affairs.

* By "tuner", I mean the electronics preceding the audio stages. All radios
have tuners.

[Brenda Ann]

Post by William Sommerwerck
I don't like gainsaying someone who regularly services electronic equipment
(and who usually knows what they're talking about). But I just don't buy
this. (I read Scott Harvey's comments before posting this, and I still find
it hard to believe.) Throughout the history of FM radios, an RF stage has
been the normal state of affairs.

Beitman's 1950, pp. 10
Beitman's 1950, pp. 14
Beitman's 1950, pp. 40
Beitman's 1967-69 pp. 42 (note the antenna input going directly into the
base of the mixer transistor)
Lots more where those came from.

To be fair, a lot of the early SS stuff did have an RF stage, but beginning
sometime in the late 60's, it was almost universally dropped, again, accept
for better car radios and home stereo tuners/receivers. I have an early
Sony FM stereo portable with no RF stage in it. It does OK for what it is,
but almost deaf as a post outside a strong signal area.

[Scott W. Harvey]

Post by William Sommerwerck

Post by Brenda Ann
Again, if you open up the average portable, or most cheap home
1) Local oscillator
2) Antenna tuning
Same for the AM section.

That goes without saying, as AM radios have generally lacked an RF stage for
nigh-on to 70 years. It just isn't needed for most local reception.

Post by Brenda Ann
I have seen very very VERY few portables with an RF amp section
for FM. Less rare were ones with an RF amp for AM, such as the
Channel Master 8 transistor sets.

I'm in a bad position to argue this point, because I rarely (ie, at this
point in my life, never) service radios. But what you're saying goes
completely against my experience -- and the service manuals for equipment I
own.
The 40-year-old Sony FM/AM radios I own (TFM 825 / 850, EFM 117, & others)
have RF stages for FM, and none for AM. The schematic for the GE P975A
(which I don't own) shows an RF stage for the FM section, none for the AM.
Ditto for all the GE clock-radios I've owned.
I went through the Sams TSM-47 transistor-radio book (dated 12/1964), which
I purchased to get additional data on the Sony EFM-117 I hoped to restore.
Of the 28 models covered, only two AM radios (Ross RE-1902 & Truetone
DC3429B) had an RF stage, and _no_ FM radio lacked one.
The RF stage in an FM tuner * performs a number of functions, one of the
most-important being to bring up the RF signal to a level where it can
override the noise generated in the conversion process. Has the conversion
process, and the transistors used to perform it, improved so much that the
RF stage can be discarded? I don't know, but I doubt it.
Another function is gain. The lost gain has to be made up somewhere,
presumably with another IF stage, which requires parts and has to be
aligned, just as an RF stage. The net savings aren't going to amount to
much.
An FM tuner without an RF stage would be hopelessly insensitive, to the
point where few consumers would find it acceptable ("This-here goddamn radio
don't pick up no stations").
I don't like gainsaying someone who regularly services electronic equipment
(and who usually knows what they're talking about). But I just don't buy
this. (I read Scott Harvey's comments before posting this, and I still find
it hard to believe.) Throughout the history of FM radios, an RF stage has
been the normal state of affairs.
* By "tuner", I mean the electronics preceding the audio stages. All radios
have tuners.

William,

There are two factors at work here:

1. IC technology has improved to the point where it is possible to throw
together a converter with cheap parts that will behave itself well
enough for a manufacturer to eschew an FM RF stage.

2. What we're talking about here is NOT a quality radio. Such an
arrangement (FM with no RF stage) will only appear to work well in an
big-city urban environment with a whole bunch of 100 KW monster FM
stations close by. In the USA, that means places like NYC, Chicago, LA
San Francisco, and the like. These radios are sold in grey-market shops,
flea markets, and other bazaar-like places in urban centers to
unsophisticated and undiscriminating consumers. Take them out of that
environment and their shortcomings quickly become apparent. No
name-brand manufacturer such as Sony or GE would ever stoop so low on
the cheapness scale as this-it is strictly a domain for the no-name
brands from China.

BTW, I would say that the Sams book you got underrepresents the number
of 1960s transistor sets with AM RF stages. There was a real competition
among manufacturers back in those days, and sensitivity was a major
selling point. I'd say about 75% of the 1960-1965 era transistor sets I
own (most of which are larger than pocket size) have an AM RF stage, and
a lot of those are amazingly hot on the AM BC bands-as hot as my better
1930s tube radios in many cases. If you take stock of those that also
have shortwave bands, the percentage with AM RF stages jumps to almost 100%

Later on in the decade, the desire for sensitivity seemed to wane in
comparison to the desire to market and sell a radio at a low price. For
most radios thereafter, that meant bye-bye to an RF stage-which is
exactly why the Superradio and CC radios have their market niche now.

-Scott

[William Sommerwerck]

Thanks for the additional info and clarification. As long as we're talking
about dirt-cheap FM radios aimed at urban listeners, I'm not upset.

The Sony EFM-117 in this manual -- which I have several non-working samples
of, and owned as a teenager -- has a long ferrite rod, but no AM RF amp.

[m***@panic.xx.tudelft.nl]

Post by William Sommerwerck
Thanks for the additional info and clarification. As long as we're talking
about dirt-cheap FM radios aimed at urban listeners, I'm not upset.
The Sony EFM-117 in this manual -- which I have several non-working samples
of, and owned as a teenager -- has a long ferrite rod, but no AM RF amp.

I imagine the design as a whole would be a bit different from the usual
concepts, as I seem to remember it uses one or more tunnel-diodes.

[William Sommerwerck]

Post by m***@panic.xx.tudelft.nl

Post by William Sommerwerck
Thanks for the additional info and clarification. As long as we're
talking about dirt-cheap FM radios aimed at urban listeners,
I'm not upset. The Sony EFM-117 in this manual -- which I have
several non-working samples of, and owned as a teenager --
has a long ferrite rod, but no AM RF amp.

I imagine the design as a whole would be a bit different from the usual
concepts, as I seem to remember it uses one or more tunnel diodes.

Not really. You'd think the tunnel diode would have been used for the LO,
but it's the mixer! Perhaps the tunnel diode was significantly less noisy,
but the EFM-117 is not an exceptionally sensitive radio -- merely good.

[Michael A. Terrell]

Post by William Sommerwerck

Post by m***@panic.xx.tudelft.nl

Post by William Sommerwerck
Thanks for the additional info and clarification. As long as we're
talking about dirt-cheap FM radios aimed at urban listeners,
I'm not upset. The Sony EFM-117 in this manual -- which I have
several non-working samples of, and owned as a teenager --
has a long ferrite rod, but no AM RF amp.

I imagine the design as a whole would be a bit different from the usual
concepts, as I seem to remember it uses one or more tunnel diodes.

Not really. You'd think the tunnel diode would have been used for the LO,
but it's the mixer! Perhaps the tunnel diode was significantly less noisy,
but the EFM-117 is not an exceptionally sensitive radio -- merely good.

Tunnel diodes were supposed to be excellent mixers, with low noise
and good IMD characteristics. In fact, the IEEE proposed a sat TV
service in the late '60s, using 30 foot sat dishes, and a tunnel diode
mixer front end. I was so expensive that it was never built.

[Scott W. Harvey]

Post by William Sommerwerck

Most AM/FM radios don't have an RF stage. Only higher-end home
systems and car radios do anymore for the most part. The front ends
on your average portable are just an LO section and an input tuning
section (antenna). Even average home systems don't have the additional
RF stage. Makes for horrid sensitivity and even worse overload problems
close in.

Show me any commercial FM radio or tuner, at any price, that _doesn't_ have
an RF stage. I find it very, very, very hard to believe that there are such
radios.

They exist, and they suck. Look at a low-end boombox and you will find
no RF stage for either AM or FM.

-Scott

[William Sommerwerck]

Post by Scott W. Harvey

Post by William Sommerwerck
Show me any commercial FM radio or tuner, at any price,
that _doesn't_ have an RF stage. I find it very, very, very hard
to believe that there are such radios.

They exist, and they suck. Look at a low-end boombox and you
will find no RF stage for either AM or FM.

If this is so, then the manufacturer must assume the product will only be
used in areas of high signal strength.

[Brenda Ann]

Post by William Sommerwerck

Post by Scott W. Harvey

Post by William Sommerwerck
Show me any commercial FM radio or tuner, at any price,
that _doesn't_ have an RF stage. I find it very, very, very hard
to believe that there are such radios.

They exist, and they suck. Look at a low-end boombox and you
will find no RF stage for either AM or FM.

If this is so, then the manufacturer must assume the product will only be
used in areas of high signal strength.

That's pretty much the case, as radio stations are no longer protected, nor
do they give a damn about listeners, outside the city grade contour.

[John Stone]

Post by Brenda Ann

Post by William Sommerwerck

Post by Scott W. Harvey

Post by William Sommerwerck
Show me any commercial FM radio or tuner, at any price,
that _doesn't_ have an RF stage. I find it very, very, very hard
to believe that there are such radios.

They exist, and they suck. Look at a low-end boombox and you
will find no RF stage for either AM or FM.

If this is so, then the manufacturer must assume the product will only be
used in areas of high signal strength.

That's pretty much the case, as radio stations are no longer protected, nor
do they give a damn about listeners, outside the city grade contour.

But I have to agree with William on this. I can't remember an FM set that
didn't have an RF amp. Even the cheap tube German sets, known for their
"gutless wonder" circuitry all used 1/2 of an ECC85 for RF amplification on
FM. Transistor sets too. I worked for Sony in the 70's and every FM set had
an RF amp. Granted, most weren't tuned RF stages, but still there was an
amplification stage ahead of the oscillator/mixer.

[r***@gmail.com]

Post by John Stone
But I have to agree with William on this. I can't remember an FM set that
didn't have an RF amp. Even the cheap tube German sets, known for their
"gutless wonder" circuitry all used 1/2 of an ECC85 for RF amplification on
FM. Transistor sets too. I worked for Sony in the 70's and every FM set had
an RF amp. Granted, most weren't tuned RF stages, but still there was an
amplification stage ahead of the oscillator/mixer.

Two classic examples that are common as dirt in the 'old radio' world
are the RCA 68R* series and the Philco 49-905. They are everywhere
so they must have sold millions. Granted they have an additional IF
stage on FM but they are really poor performers.
Philco apparently rethought it with the 50-925 the following year
(same case, etc) and its a pretty good radio.

I live 40-50 miles out from most any FM stations and the difference in
having an RF amp or not means hearing something ...or not...without an
outdoor antenna.

-Bill

[Stephan Grossklass]

Post by Scott W. Harvey

Post by William Sommerwerck

Most AM/FM radios don't have an RF stage. Only higher-end home
systems and car radios do anymore for the most part. The front ends
on your average portable are just an LO section and an input tuning
section (antenna). Even average home systems don't have the additional
RF stage. Makes for horrid sensitivity and even worse overload problems
close in.

Show me any commercial FM radio or tuner, at any price, that _doesn't_ have
an RF stage. I find it very, very, very hard to believe that there are such
radios.

They exist, and they suck. Look at a low-end boombox and you will find
no RF stage for either AM or FM.

Hmm. An FM/AM IC that might be found in a boombox is Sony's CXA1238, and
even that includes an RF preamp for FM in common-base configuration and
allows connecting a bandpass (or rather bandstop) between RF amp and
mixer.

As far as the poor overload rejection is concerned, this has to do with
weak mixers inside ICs and insufficient RF filtering. A typical config
for a low-end FM receiver would look like this (tuning via varicap
diodes or tuning caps with plastic dielectric):

fixed bandpass for all of FM -> RF amp -> 1 tuned tank circuit -> mixer
^
. |
LO
It typically takes a frontend chip with a balanced mixer like the
venerable TA7358P/LA1185 to achieve good results in such a config
(actually the datasheet suggests this and it's commonly used that way).
The most fancy configuration I've seen with this chip is the 4-gang one
found in the Redsun RP2000/2100 and its rebadges:

1 tuned tank circuit -> RF amp -> 2 tuned tank circuits -> mixer
^
. |
LO
Unsurprisingly, its FM frontend is reported to be just about bulletproof
for a portable.

FM frontends in dedicated tuners historically had up to 7 or so tuning
gangs, but with later advances in mixers in particular, there are some
models with seemingly modest 4-gang frontends but not so modest
sensitivity and overload handling; many 5-gang tuners in the later 1980s
actually used the additional gang for a tuned LO buffer.

Stephan (F'up2 rrs set)

[jim menning]

There WAS a digital version of the GE superadio, called the superadio plus, made in
1982.

Was it originally named that by GE or just by later aficionados in their comparisons?

I've got one right here in front of me (GE 7-2882A), and it's labeled as an
"electronic tuning FM-AM receiver", not a "superadio plus" or "superadio+".

As far as I know, this was never touted by GE top be a "superadio". Does anyone have
pictures of a box or advertising they can share to show GE called it one?

[Brenda Ann]

Post by jim menning

Post by Scott W. Harvey
There WAS a digital version of the GE superadio, called the superadio
plus, made in 1982.

Was it originally named that by GE or just by later aficionados in their comparisons?
I've got one right here in front of me (GE 7-2882A), and it's labeled as
an "electronic tuning FM-AM receiver", not a "superadio plus" or
"superadio+".
As far as I know, this was never touted by GE top be a "superadio". Does
anyone have pictures of a box or advertising they can share to show GE
called it one?

I distinctly remember a digital Superadio Plus. It sold for a very short
time around 1983 or 84? It clearly said "Superadio Plus" on the front panel.

[jim menning]

Post by jim menning

There WAS a digital version of the GE superadio, called the superadio plus, made
in 1982.

Was it originally named that by GE or just by later aficionados in their comparisons?
I've got one right here in front of me (GE 7-2882A), and it's labeled as an
"electronic tuning FM-AM receiver", not a "superadio plus" or "superadio+".
As far as I know, this was never touted by GE top be a "superadio". Does anyone
have pictures of a box or advertising they can share to show GE called it one?

I distinctly remember a digital Superadio Plus. It sold for a very short time
around 1983 or 84? It clearly said "Superadio Plus" on the front panel.

As I said, I have the GE 7-2882A sitting right here in front of me, and that is the
model previously claimed to be the "Superadio Plus". There is no "Superadio Plus"
nametag anywhere on it. The front reads "GENERAL ELECTRIC electronic tuning FM-AM
RECEIVER"

The reason I ask is that I have heard this radio called a "Superadio" in the past in
other threads and several places on the internet, but no one has ever provided a
picture of this radio's nameplate or any box or literature supporting the claim.
Thus I have to question whether it was marketed as such, or if the name was just
attributed to it later by Superadio fans. I also have the cassette recorder version
of this radio, and with it came a little flyer describing the new "electronic tuning
FM-AM receivers", with no "superadio" mention.

Sorry Brenda Ann, I guess I need to see some proof, not someone's 20+ year old
memories to convince me.

Maybe RHF can photograph his radio and share the picture with us if his has the name
somewhere on it.

[RHF]

Post by jim menning

Post by jim menning

There WAS a digital version of the GE superadio, called the superadio plus, made
in 1982.

Was it originally named that by GE or just by later aficionados in their comparisons?
I've got one right here in front of me (GE 7-2882A), and it's labeled as an
"electronic tuning FM-AM receiver", not a "superadio plus" or "superadio+".
As far as I know, this was never touted by GE top be a "superadio". Does anyone
have pictures of a box or advertising they can share to show GE called it one?

I distinctly remember a digital Superadio Plus. It sold for a very short time
around 1983 or 84? It clearly said "Superadio Plus" on the front panel.

As I said, I have the GE 7-2882A sitting right here in front of me, and that is the
model previously claimed to be the "Superadio Plus". There is no "Superadio Plus"
nametag anywhere on it. The front reads "GENERAL ELECTRIC electronic tuning FM-AM
RECEIVER"
The reason I ask is that I have heard this radio called a "Superadio" in the past in
other threads and several places on the internet, but no one has ever provided a
picture of this radio's nameplate or any box or literature supporting the claim.
Thus I have to question whether it was marketed as such, or if the name was just
attributed to it later by Superadio fans. I also have the cassette recorder version
of this radio, and with it came a little flyer describing the new "electronic tuning
FM-AM receivers", with no "superadio" mention.

JM - I Can Confirmed Your Findings ~ RHF

Post by jim menning
Sorry Brenda Ann, I guess I need to see some proof, not someone's 20+ year old
memories to convince me.
Maybe RHF can photograph his radio and share the picture with us if his has the name
somewhere on it.

Sorry all the Photos of the various GE Superadios
that I had posted to the "longrange" Yahoo Group
{ GE Superadio Group For Connoisseurs ] a few
years ago are gone; and i do not know where the
originals are . . . ~ RHF
.
.
. .

[Steven]

Post by RHF

Post by jim menning

Post by jim menning

There WAS a digital version of the GE superadio, called the superadio plus, made
in 1982.

Was it originally named that by GE or just by later aficionados in their
comparisons?
I've got one right here in front of me (GE 7-2882A), and it's labeled as an
"electronic tuning FM-AM receiver", not a "superadio plus" or "superadio+".
As far as I know, this was never touted by GE top be a "superadio". Does anyone
have pictures of a box or advertising they can share to show GE called it one?

I distinctly remember a digital Superadio Plus. It sold for a very short time
around 1983 or 84? It clearly said "Superadio Plus" on the front panel.

As I said, I have the GE 7-2882A sitting right here in front of me, and that is the
model previously claimed to be the "Superadio Plus". There is no "Superadio Plus"
nametag anywhere on it. The front reads "GENERAL ELECTRIC electronic tuning FM-AM
RECEIVER"
The reason I ask is that I have heard this radio called a "Superadio" in the past in
other threads and several places on the internet, but no one has ever provided a
picture of this radio's nameplate or any box or literature supporting the claim.
Thus I have to question whether it was marketed as such, or if the name was just
attributed to it later by Superadio fans. I also have the cassette recorder version
of this radio, and with it came a little flyer describing the new "electronic tuning
FM-AM receivers", with no "superadio" mention.

JM - I Can Confirmed Your Findings ~ RHF

Post by jim menning
Sorry Brenda Ann, I guess I need to see some proof, not someone's 20+ year old
memories to convince me.
Maybe RHF can photograph his radio and share the picture with us if his has the name
somewhere on it.

Sorry all the Photos of the various GE Superadios
that I had posted to the "longrange" Yahoo Group
{ GE Superadio Group For Connoisseurs ] a few
years ago are gone; and i do not know where the
originals are . . . ~ RHF

That's pretty stupid, and I'm sorry that I have to say it. Still, one
does not enter evidence into a court with a statement that "I know
where it is".

Please corroborate your statements in the future, wherever/whenever or
you'll have credibility trouble in a lot of places.

Radio Abby

[RHF]

Post by Steven

Post by RHF

Post by jim menning

Post by jim menning

There WAS a digital version of the GE superadio, called the superadio plus, made
in 1982.

Was it originally named that by GE or just by later aficionados in their
comparisons?
I've got one right here in front of me (GE 7-2882A), and it's labeled as an
"electronic tuning FM-AM receiver", not a "superadio plus" or "superadio+".
As far as I know, this was never touted by GE top be a "superadio". Does anyone
have pictures of a box or advertising they can share to show GE called it one?

I distinctly remember a digital Superadio Plus. It sold for a very short time
around 1983 or 84? It clearly said "Superadio Plus" on the front panel.

As I said, I have the GE 7-2882A sitting right here in front of me, and that is the
model previously claimed to be the "Superadio Plus". There is no "Superadio Plus"
nametag anywhere on it. The front reads "GENERAL ELECTRIC electronic tuning FM-AM
RECEIVER"
The reason I ask is that I have heard this radio called a "Superadio" in the past in
other threads and several places on the internet, but no one has ever provided a
picture of this radio's nameplate or any box or literature supporting the claim.
Thus I have to question whether it was marketed as such, or if the name was just
attributed to it later by Superadio fans. I also have the cassette recorder version
of this radio, and with it came a little flyer describing the new "electronic tuning
FM-AM receivers", with no "superadio" mention.

JM - I Can Confirmed Your Findings ~ RHF

Post by jim menning
Sorry Brenda Ann, I guess I need to see some proof, not someone's 20+ year old
memories to convince me.
Maybe RHF can photograph his radio and share the picture with us if his has the name
somewhere on it.

Sorry all the Photos of the various GE Superadios
that I had posted to the "longrange" Yahoo Group
{ GE Superadio Group For Connoisseurs ] a few
years ago are gone; and i do not know where the
originals are . . . ~ RHF

That's pretty stupid, and I'm sorry that I have to say it. Still, one
does not enter evidence into a court with a statement that "I know
where it is".
Please corroborate your statements in the future, wherever/whenever or
you'll have credibility trouble in a lot of places.
Radio Abby- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Radio Abby,

I am so sorry that you are having reading comprehension problems.

I simply confirmed JM"s statements and findings.

Please follow the Posts in the Thread so that you
can make intelligent contributions without resorting
to calling someone "Stupid" when you can not keep
up with the topic as it evolves.

~ RHF
.
.
. .

[Steven]

Post by RHF

Post by Steven

Post by RHF

Post by jim menning

Post by jim menning

There WAS a digital version of the GE superadio, called the superadio plus, made
in 1982.

Was it originally named that by GE or just by later aficionados in their
comparisons?
I've got one right here in front of me (GE 7-2882A), and it's labeled as an
"electronic tuning FM-AM receiver", not a "superadio plus" or "superadio+".
As far as I know, this was never touted by GE top be a "superadio". Does anyone
have pictures of a box or advertising they can share to show GE called it one?

I distinctly remember a digital Superadio Plus. It sold for a very short time
around 1983 or 84? It clearly said "Superadio Plus" on the front panel.

As I said, I have the GE 7-2882A sitting right here in front of me, and that is the
model previously claimed to be the "Superadio Plus". There is no "Superadio Plus"
nametag anywhere on it. The front reads "GENERAL ELECTRIC electronic tuning FM-AM
RECEIVER"
The reason I ask is that I have heard this radio called a "Superadio" in the past in
other threads and several places on the internet, but no one has ever provided a
picture of this radio's nameplate or any box or literature supporting the claim.
Thus I have to question whether it was marketed as such, or if the name was just
attributed to it later by Superadio fans. I also have the cassette recorder version
of this radio, and with it came a little flyer describing the new "electronic tuning
FM-AM receivers", with no "superadio" mention.

JM - I Can Confirmed Your Findings ~ RHF

Post by jim menning
Sorry Brenda Ann, I guess I need to see some proof, not someone's 20+ year old
memories to convince me.
Maybe RHF can photograph his radio and share the picture with us if his has the name
somewhere on it.

Sorry all the Photos of the various GE Superadios
that I had posted to the "longrange" Yahoo Group
{ GE Superadio Group For Connoisseurs ] a few
years ago are gone; and i do not know where the
originals are . . . ~ RHF

That's pretty stupid, and I'm sorry that I have to say it. Still, one
does not enter evidence into a court with a statement that "I know
where it is".
Please corroborate your statements in the future, wherever/whenever or
you'll have credibility trouble in a lot of places.
Radio Abby- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Radio Abby,
I am so sorry that you are having reading comprehension problems.
I simply confirmed JM"s statements and findings.
Please follow the Posts in the Thread so that you
can make intelligent contributions without resorting
to calling someone "Stupid" when you can not keep
up with the topic as it evolves.
~ RHF
.
.
. .- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

I've been here almost eight years. Go be Jack Handy for others.

Thank you kindly, shalom and aloha

[Steven]

Post by RHF

Post by Steven

Post by RHF

Post by jim menning

Post by jim menning

There WAS a digital version of the GE superadio, called the superadio plus, made
in 1982.

Was it originally named that by GE or just by later aficionados in their
comparisons?
I've got one right here in front of me (GE 7-2882A), and it's labeled as an
"electronic tuning FM-AM receiver", not a "superadio plus" or "superadio+".
As far as I know, this was never touted by GE top be a "superadio". Does anyone
have pictures of a box or advertising they can share to show GE called it one?

I distinctly remember a digital Superadio Plus. It sold for a very short time
around 1983 or 84? It clearly said "Superadio Plus" on the front panel.

As I said, I have the GE 7-2882A sitting right here in front of me, and that is the
model previously claimed to be the "Superadio Plus". There is no "Superadio Plus"
nametag anywhere on it. The front reads "GENERAL ELECTRIC electronic tuning FM-AM
RECEIVER"
The reason I ask is that I have heard this radio called a "Superadio" in the past in
other threads and several places on the internet, but no one has ever provided a
picture of this radio's nameplate or any box or literature supporting the claim.
Thus I have to question whether it was marketed as such, or if the name was just
attributed to it later by Superadio fans. I also have the cassette recorder version
of this radio, and with it came a little flyer describing the new "electronic tuning
FM-AM receivers", with no "superadio" mention.

JM - I Can Confirmed Your Findings ~ RHF

Post by jim menning
Sorry Brenda Ann, I guess I need to see some proof, not someone's 20+ year old
memories to convince me.
Maybe RHF can photograph his radio and share the picture with us if his has the name
somewhere on it.

Sorry all the Photos of the various GE Superadios
that I had posted to the "longrange" Yahoo Group
{ GE Superadio Group For Connoisseurs ] a few
years ago are gone; and i do not know where the
originals are . . . ~ RHF

That's pretty stupid, and I'm sorry that I have to say it. Still, one
does not enter evidence into a court with a statement that "I know
where it is".
Please corroborate your statements in the future, wherever/whenever or
you'll have credibility trouble in a lot of places.
Radio Abby- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Radio Abby,
I am so sorry that you are having reading comprehension problems.

As a devout, well established bipolar walking fool, sir I had no
READING comprehension problems WHATSOEVER. I asked you simply to do
your homework first, typing second.

My reluctant colleagues will probably agree to themselves and answer
other questions without comment for the most part.

Thou havest nary the piss to join the vinager union, thus verily I
urge your reduction of cocksurity to commence in the uncouth slang of
children past--"chill out, dude".

[Steven]

On Aug 5, 11:21 pm, RHF <rhf-***@pacbell.net> wrote:

Quoth the Raven: "Stink op shit is nog ge�nstalleerde norm bij de
fabriek en altijd bij geen extra last aan de ontvanger.

take it up with a TV judge, Steven, old enough but capable so there.

[RHF]

Post by Steven

Post by RHF

Post by jim menning

Post by jim menning

There WAS a digital version of the GE superadio, called the superadio plus, made
in 1982.

Was it originally named that by GE or just by later aficionados in their
comparisons?
I've got one right here in front of me (GE 7-2882A), and it's labeled as an
"electronic tuning FM-AM receiver", not a "superadio plus" or "superadio+".
As far as I know, this was never touted by GE top be a "superadio". Does anyone
have pictures of a box or advertising they can share to show GE called it one?

I distinctly remember a digital Superadio Plus. It sold for a very short time
around 1983 or 84? It clearly said "Superadio Plus" on the front panel.

As I said, I have the GE 7-2882A sitting right here in front of me, and that is the
model previously claimed to be the "Superadio Plus". There is no "Superadio Plus"
nametag anywhere on it. The front reads "GENERAL ELECTRIC electronic tuning FM-AM
RECEIVER"
The reason I ask is that I have heard this radio called a "Superadio" in the past in
other threads and several places on the internet, but no one has ever provided a
picture of this radio's nameplate or any box or literature supporting the claim.
Thus I have to question whether it was marketed as such, or if the name was just
attributed to it later by Superadio fans. I also have the cassette recorder version
of this radio, and with it came a little flyer describing the new "electronic tuning
FM-AM receivers", with no "superadio" mention.

JM - I Can Confirmed Your Findings ~ RHF

Post by jim menning
Sorry Brenda Ann, I guess I need to see some proof, not someone's 20+ year old
memories to convince me.
Maybe RHF can photograph his radio and share the picture with us if his has the name
somewhere on it.

Sorry all the Photos of the various GE Superadios
that I had posted to the "longrange" Yahoo Group
{ GE Superadio Group For Connoisseurs ] a few
years ago are gone; and i do not know where the
originals are . . . ~ RHF

That's pretty stupid, and I'm sorry that I have to say it. Still, one
does not enter evidence into a court with a statement that "I know
where it is".
Please corroborate your statements in the future, wherever/whenever or
you'll have credibility trouble in a lot of places.
Radio Abby- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Radio Abby,

? Evidence ?

? Court ?

! Time for a Reality Check !

. This is a Usenet NewsGroup .

oops reality - oh never mind ~ RHF
.
.
. .

[Lou D]

Post by Dennis M
Hello radio enthusiasts,
I own a General Electric "Superadio III" that I purchased new back around
2001. I've never had any problems with it until this June when I was
vacationing on the beach down in Florida. The FM band suddenly went out and
only a low static sound could be heard, but the AM band seemed to pick up
as normal. Turning the radio off and back on again didn't fix the problem.
But when I tried it indoors the next day, the FM seemed to pick up fine.
But when I was at a local beach yesterday, the same thing happened.
My question is, could weak batteries possibly cause this kind of behavior?
The 6 "D" batteries it uses were put in around 2003 or 2004, and I've just
replaced them with fresh Duracells (it also has an AC cord, BTW). I just
assumed if it was the batteries, normally strong stations would begin to
come in very weak -- not just not be received at all.
Or, could intense heat in the direct sun possibly cause this problem? This
radio has pretty good reception when it's working properly and I'd hate to
think it's gone south. TIA for any input.

Sounds like a heat related problem. I have one of these I bought at the
Salvation Army in new condition for $5 I use for a work radio on
construction jobs. What a great sounding radio and so easy on batteries.

[i***@yahoo.com]

Post by Dennis M
Hello radio enthusiasts,
I own a General Electric "Superadio III" that I purchased new back around
2001. I've never had any problems with it until this June when I was
vacationing on the beach down in Florida. The FM band suddenly went out and
only a low static sound could be heard, but the AM band seemed to pick up
as normal. Turning the radio off and back on again didn't fix the problem.
But when I tried it indoors the next day, the FM seemed to pick up fine.
But when I was at a local beach yesterday, the same thing happened.
My question is, could weak batteries possibly cause this kind of behavior?
The 6 "D" batteries it uses were put in around 2003 or 2004, and I've just
replaced them with fresh Duracells (it also has an AC cord, BTW). I just
assumed if it was the batteries, normally strong stations would begin to
come in very weak -- not just not be received at all.
Or, could intense heat in the direct sun possibly cause this problem? This
radio has pretty good reception when it's working properly and I'd hate to
think it's gone south. TIA for any input.

The radio is Chinese-made garbage - the Eton/Grindig/Tecsun radios are
garbage too...

[Dennis M]

Post by i***@yahoo.com
The radio is Chinese-made garbage - the Eton/Grindig/Tecsun radios are

garbage too...

Just curious, what do you consider "not garbage" -- some exotic radio you
shelled out $500 for?

Or built by you in your basement with your very own schematics?

Not everybody's into that.

About 90% of the people who own this radio on Amazon agree it's by far the
best sounding portable radio available for the money if you can live with a
rotary tuning wheel and without a lot of digital bells & whistles.

They rate its AM reception particularly high and most thought the FM was
almost as good.

But thanks anyway for sharing.

[Knut Otterbeck]

I like the great sound on FM and the good reception on AM in a radio that
it costs little next to nothing. A combination hard to find elsewhere...

The large built-in antenna (AM ferrite-bar) makes for good AM-reception,
an the "well balanced" (though very cheap) set of speakers makes the sound
unmatched for a light footprint radio this cheap.

I do have better sounding portable radios (older, genuine Grundig
Satellit's)
but they are totally different class and price range all together.

Greetings,
Knut Otterbeck

Post by i***@yahoo.com

Post by i***@yahoo.com
The radio is Chinese-made garbage - the Eton/Grindig/Tecsun radios are

garbage too...
Just curious, what do you consider "not garbage" -- some exotic radio you
shelled out $500 for?
Or built by you in your basement with your very own schematics?
Not everybody's into that.
About 90% of the people who own this radio on Amazon agree it's by far the
best sounding portable radio available for the money if you can live with a
rotary tuning wheel and without a lot of digital bells & whistles.
They rate its AM reception particularly high and most thought the FM was
almost as good.
But thanks anyway for sharing.

[Steven]

Post by i***@yahoo.com

Post by Dennis M
Hello radio enthusiasts,
I own a General Electric "Superadio III" that I purchased new back around
2001. I've never had any problems with it until this June when I was
vacationing on the beach down in Florida. The FM band suddenly went out and
only a low static sound could be heard, but the AM band seemed to pick up
as normal. Turning the radio off and back on again didn't fix the problem.
But when I tried it indoors the next day, the FM seemed to pick up fine.
But when I was at a local beach yesterday, the same thing happened.
My question is, could weak batteries possibly cause this kind of behavior?
The 6 "D" batteries it uses were put in around 2003 or 2004, and I've just
replaced them with fresh Duracells (it also has an AC cord, BTW). I just
assumed if it was the batteries, normally strong stations would begin to
come in very weak -- not just not be received at all.
Or, could intense heat in the direct sun possibly cause this problem? This
radio has pretty good reception when it's working properly and I'd hate to
think it's gone south. TIA for any input.

The radio is Chinese-made garbage - the Eton/Grindig/Tecsun radios are
garbage too...- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

For two dollars that I gave for one, the bandwidth switch is a big
help, even and the varactor does slip around if you aren't there well
enough on AM and either switch AFC on or off.

That AFC is sloppy and seems to be a big part of it's DX so-called
atrributes. It's really good for zeroing in on weak, mostly LOCAL AM
stations and improving them against splash or harmonics.

[William R. Walsh]

Hi!

Post by Dennis M
My question is, could weak batteries possibly cause this kind of behavior?

Absolutely. I would strongly suggest a new set of batteries. In a radio,
batteries that have been in since 2003 or 2004 are surely very close to
being depleted. Low battery power can cause all sorts of strange behavior.

Try the radio plugged in and see if it still happens. The SRIII is an AC or
battery operable set, so there should be a cord tucked away in the battery
compartment if memory serves.

I have one of these GE Super Radios and it is one of the better portable
sets that I have. I think it picks up stations well and it can certainly be
heard. Radio Shack marketed a 95% similar radio (smaller main speaker, for
starters) under their "Optimus" name. It performs about the same. I have no
idea why its speaker is smaller. The internals are almost identical between
the sets.

William