Discussion:
50A1 Tube Solid State Replacement Zenith Trans Oceanic
(too old to reply)
Omer Suleimanagich
2007-07-13 04:07:53 UTC
Permalink
This guy does some great stuff!

Omer


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110146623026
Tom Biasi
2007-07-13 10:13:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Omer Suleimanagich
This guy does some great stuff!
Omer
You can buy a 50A1 for about that price. Unless your goal is to turn your
whole radio into a solid state one.

Tom
Post by Omer Suleimanagich
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110146623026
Peter Wieck
2007-07-13 10:42:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tom Biasi
You can buy a 50A1 for about that price. Unless your goal is to turn your
whole radio into a solid state one.
The goal is to curb the expensive appetite of these radios. Of course
one would wish to keep the pristine examples with all OEM-type tubes.
But the daily drivers want to be reliable, rugged and easily used....
What do you not get about that concept?

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA
Tom Biasi
2007-07-13 11:30:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Wieck
Post by Tom Biasi
You can buy a 50A1 for about that price. Unless your goal is to turn your
whole radio into a solid state one.
The goal is to curb the expensive appetite of these radios. Of course
one would wish to keep the pristine examples with all OEM-type tubes.
But the daily drivers want to be reliable, rugged and easily used....
What do you not get about that concept?
Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA
I get the concept fine.
Paul Sherwin
2007-07-13 11:54:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tom Biasi
Post by Omer Suleimanagich
This guy does some great stuff!
You can buy a 50A1 for about that price. Unless your goal is to turn your
whole radio into a solid state one.
It's a neat plug in replacement, but you could build one for about a
dollar if you have a spare 7 pin plug in the junk box. You don't even need
the plug if you're happy to wire a reg permanently under the chassis.

Paul
Peter Wieck
2007-07-13 13:18:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Sherwin
Post by Tom Biasi
Post by Omer Suleimanagich
This guy does some great stuff!
You can buy a 50A1 for about that price. Unless your goal is to turn your
whole radio into a solid state one.
It's a neat plug in replacement, but you could build one for about a
dollar if you have a spare 7 pin plug in the junk box. You don't even need
the plug if you're happy to wire a reg permanently under the chassis.
Paul
Mpffff..... the CR chip is ~$1.68 + shipping from Digikey.... So maybe
$5 with the heat-sink. ;-)>

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA
Uncle Peter
2007-07-13 13:53:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Wieck
Post by Paul Sherwin
Post by Tom Biasi
Post by Omer Suleimanagich
This guy does some great stuff!
You can buy a 50A1 for about that price. Unless your goal is to turn your
whole radio into a solid state one.
It's a neat plug in replacement, but you could build one for about a
dollar if you have a spare 7 pin plug in the junk box. You don't even need
the plug if you're happy to wire a reg permanently under the chassis.
Paul
Mpffff..... the CR chip is ~$1.68 + shipping from Digikey.... So maybe
$5 with the heat-sink. ;-)>
Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA
What is the chip they are using? It must be a generation or two ahead of
the venerable 7809 series to handle the input voltage...

Pete
Peter Wieck
2007-07-13 18:58:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Uncle Peter
What is the chip they are using? It must be a generation or two ahead of
the venerable 7809 series to handle the input voltage...
50M45S

Parts needed are:
R1: 800 ohm, 1 watt resistor
R2: 33 ohm, 1 watt resistor
IC1: 10M45S current regulator (TO-220 case)
Heat Sink (if wanted)
9-pin miniature tube base

Pin 1 of IC to R1, to Pin 2 of base
Jumper from Pin 1 to Pin 2 of base.

Pin 2 of IC to Pin 9 of base
Pin 3 of IC to R2, to Pin 7 of base.
Jumper from Pin 7 to Pin 9 of base.

No Connections: Pins 3,4,5,6 & 8 of base.

Bob's your uncle.

Works nicely.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA
Michael A. Terrell
2007-07-13 19:51:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Wieck
Bob's your uncle.
Well, he was. I havn't seen him in 30 years. ;-)
--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
John Byrns
2007-07-13 21:14:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Wieck
Post by Uncle Peter
What is the chip they are using? It must be a generation or two ahead of
the venerable 7809 series to handle the input voltage...
50M45S
R1: 800 ohm, 1 watt resistor
R2: 33 ohm, 1 watt resistor
IC1: 10M45S current regulator (TO-220 case)
Is this a typo?
Post by Peter Wieck
Heat Sink (if wanted)
9-pin miniature tube base
Pin 1 of IC to R1, to Pin 2 of base
Jumper from Pin 1 to Pin 2 of base.
Pin 2 of IC to Pin 9 of base
Pin 3 of IC to R2, to Pin 7 of base.
Jumper from Pin 7 to Pin 9 of base.
No Connections: Pins 3,4,5,6 & 8 of base.
Bob's your uncle.
Works nicely.
How does that circuit handle the AC mentioned in the eBay listing?


Regards,

John Byrns
--
Surf my web pages at, http://fmamradios.com/
Omer Suleimanagich
2007-07-13 21:24:27 UTC
Permalink
Is this sub the same as Bill Turners, with no glass envelope, or is Bill's
just a dropping resistor hooked up to two pins?

Omer
Post by John Byrns
Post by Peter Wieck
Post by Uncle Peter
What is the chip they are using? It must be a generation or two ahead of
the venerable 7809 series to handle the input voltage...
50M45S
R1: 800 ohm, 1 watt resistor
R2: 33 ohm, 1 watt resistor
IC1: 10M45S current regulator (TO-220 case)
Is this a typo?
Post by Peter Wieck
Heat Sink (if wanted)
9-pin miniature tube base
Pin 1 of IC to R1, to Pin 2 of base
Jumper from Pin 1 to Pin 2 of base.
Pin 2 of IC to Pin 9 of base
Pin 3 of IC to R2, to Pin 7 of base.
Jumper from Pin 7 to Pin 9 of base.
No Connections: Pins 3,4,5,6 & 8 of base.
Bob's your uncle.
Works nicely.
How does that circuit handle the AC mentioned in the eBay listing?
Regards,
John Byrns
--
Surf my web pages at, http://fmamradios.com/
Peter Wieck
2007-07-14 10:54:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Omer Suleimanagich
Is this sub the same as Bill Turners, with no glass envelope, or is Bill's
just a dropping resistor hooked up to two pins?
Omer
Post by John Byrns
Post by Peter Wieck
Post by Uncle Peter
What is the chip they are using? It must be a generation or two ahead of
the venerable 7809 series to handle the input voltage...
50M45S
R1: 800 ohm, 1 watt resistor
R2: 33 ohm, 1 watt resistor
IC1: 10M45S current regulator (TO-220 case)
Is this a typo?
Post by Peter Wieck
Heat Sink (if wanted)
9-pin miniature tube base
Pin 1 of IC to R1, to Pin 2 of base
Jumper from Pin 1 to Pin 2 of base.
Pin 2 of IC to Pin 9 of base
Pin 3 of IC to R2, to Pin 7 of base.
Jumper from Pin 7 to Pin 9 of base.
No Connections: Pins 3,4,5,6 & 8 of base.
Bob's your uncle.
Works nicely.
How does that circuit handle the AC mentioned in the eBay listing?
Regards,
John Byrns
--
Surf my web pages at, http://fmamradios.com/- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Omer:

I am not quite sure what Bill uses. I have one in service, I should
pull it and see. But it is one that I have been using now for 4 years
with success in a not-quite-daily-driver, and is certainly simple
enough. I use it without the heat-sink and at 117V it gets no warmer
than a quiescent wall-wart as an order-of-magnitude. I can imagine
that at some of the higher voltages I have experienced the heat-sink
may be a good idea.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA
L***@gmail.com
2007-08-13 23:40:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Wieck
Post by Omer Suleimanagich
Is this sub the same as Bill Turners, with no glass envelope, or is Bill's
just a dropping resistor hooked up to two pins?
Omer
Post by John Byrns
Post by Peter Wieck
Post by Uncle Peter
What is the chip they are using? It must be a generation or two ahead of
the venerable 7809 series to handle the input voltage...
50M45S
R1: 800 ohm, 1 watt resistor
R2: 33 ohm, 1 watt resistor
IC1: 10M45S current regulator (TO-220 case)
Is this a typo?
Post by Peter Wieck
Heat Sink (if wanted)
9-pin miniature tube base
Pin 1 of IC to R1, to Pin 2 of base
Jumper from Pin 1 to Pin 2 of base.
Pin 2 of IC to Pin 9 of base
Pin 3 of IC to R2, to Pin 7 of base.
Jumper from Pin 7 to Pin 9 of base.
No Connections: Pins 3,4,5,6 & 8 of base.
Bob's your uncle.
Works nicely.
How does that circuit handle the AC mentioned in the eBay listing?
Regards,
John Byrns
--
Surf my web pages at, http://fmamradios.com/-Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I am not quite sure what Bill uses. I have one in service, I should
pull it and see. But it is one that I have been using now for 4 years
with success in a not-quite-daily-driver, and is certainly simple
enough. I use it without the heat-sink and at 117V it gets no warmer
than a quiescent wall-wart as an order-of-magnitude. I can imagine
that at some of the higher voltages I have experienced the heat-sink
may be a good idea.
Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA
Bill is using an LM317hv which is rated to 60 volts in series with
resister.

Peter Wieck
2007-07-14 10:56:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Omer Suleimanagich
Is this sub the same as Bill Turners, with no glass envelope, or is Bill's
just a dropping resistor hooked up to two pins?
Omer
Post by John Byrns
Post by Peter Wieck
Post by Uncle Peter
What is the chip they are using? It must be a generation or two ahead of
the venerable 7809 series to handle the input voltage...
50M45S
R1: 800 ohm, 1 watt resistor
R2: 33 ohm, 1 watt resistor
IC1: 10M45S current regulator (TO-220 case)
Is this a typo?
Post by Peter Wieck
Heat Sink (if wanted)
9-pin miniature tube base
Pin 1 of IC to R1, to Pin 2 of base
Jumper from Pin 1 to Pin 2 of base.
Pin 2 of IC to Pin 9 of base
Pin 3 of IC to R2, to Pin 7 of base.
Jumper from Pin 7 to Pin 9 of base.
No Connections: Pins 3,4,5,6 & 8 of base.
Bob's your uncle.
Works nicely.
How does that circuit handle the AC mentioned in the eBay listing?
Regards,
John Byrns
--
Surf my web pages at, http://fmamradios.com/- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
OOPS!

600 ohm for R1

Fumble-fingers.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA
John Byrns
2007-07-14 13:46:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Wieck
Post by Omer Suleimanagich
Is this sub the same as Bill Turners, with no glass envelope, or is Bill's
just a dropping resistor hooked up to two pins?
Omer
Post by John Byrns
Post by Peter Wieck
Post by Uncle Peter
What is the chip they are using? It must be a generation or two ahead of
the venerable 7809 series to handle the input voltage...
50M45S
R1: 800 ohm, 1 watt resistor
R2: 33 ohm, 1 watt resistor
IC1: 10M45S current regulator (TO-220 case)
Is this a typo?
Post by Peter Wieck
Heat Sink (if wanted)
9-pin miniature tube base
Pin 1 of IC to R1, to Pin 2 of base
Jumper from Pin 1 to Pin 2 of base.
Pin 2 of IC to Pin 9 of base
Pin 3 of IC to R2, to Pin 7 of base.
Jumper from Pin 7 to Pin 9 of base.
No Connections: Pins 3,4,5,6 & 8 of base.
Bob's your uncle.
Works nicely.
How does that circuit handle the AC mentioned in the eBay listing?
Regards,
John Byrns
--
Surf my web pages at, http://fmamradios.com/- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
OOPS!
600 ohm for R1
Fumble-fingers.
Actually I was referring to the "10M45S".


Regards,

John Byrns
--
Surf my web pages at, http://fmamradios.com/
Paul P
2007-07-14 11:54:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Byrns
How does that circuit handle the AC mentioned in the eBay listing?
Regards,
John Byrns
I did not read the listing but this regulator shows up after the 1/2 wave
selenium rectifier in the TO circuits.

PP
John Byrns
2007-07-14 13:57:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul P
Post by John Byrns
How does that circuit handle the AC mentioned in the eBay listing?
Regards,
John Byrns
I did not read the listing but this regulator shows up after the 1/2 wave
selenium rectifier in the TO circuits.
Yes, that is exactly what I assumed in the case of the TO, but the eBay
ad said "Will work on AC as well as DC circuits just like a 50A1, so it
should replace 50A1 tubes in other radios as well." It isn't clear
precisely what the seller meant by this statement but it sound's like
Peter's circuit isn't an exact workalike for the unit offered on eBay.


Regards,

John Byrns
--
Surf my web pages at, http://fmamradios.com/
Peter Wieck
2007-07-14 14:43:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Byrns
Post by Paul P
Post by John Byrns
How does that circuit handle the AC mentioned in the eBay listing?
Regards,
John Byrns
I did not read the listing but this regulator shows up after the 1/2 wave
selenium rectifier in the TO circuits.
Yes, that is exactly what I assumed in the case of the TO, but the eBay
ad said "Will work on AC as well as DC circuits just like a 50A1, so it
should replace 50A1 tubes in other radios as well." It isn't clear
precisely what the seller meant by this statement but it sound's like
Peter's circuit isn't an exact workalike for the unit offered on eBay.
Regards,
John Byrns
--
Surf my web pages at, http://fmamradios.com/
John:

First, I never made the claim that my unit was the same as that on
eBay.

Second, the only 50A1s that I am aware of (and my knowledge is by no
means as encyclopedic as yours) happen to be in T/O clones such as the
various Hallicrafters, Stromberg-Carlson, RCA and such, also after the
rectifier.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA
John Byrns
2007-07-14 16:15:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Wieck
Post by John Byrns
Post by Paul P
Post by John Byrns
How does that circuit handle the AC mentioned in the eBay listing?
I did not read the listing but this regulator shows up after the 1/2 wave
selenium rectifier in the TO circuits.
Yes, that is exactly what I assumed in the case of the TO, but the eBay
ad said "Will work on AC as well as DC circuits just like a 50A1, so it
should replace 50A1 tubes in other radios as well." It isn't clear
precisely what the seller meant by this statement but it sound's like
Peter's circuit isn't an exact workalike for the unit offered on eBay.
First, I never made the claim that my unit was the same as that on
eBay.
Second, the only 50A1s that I am aware of (and my knowledge is by no
means as encyclopedic as yours) happen to be in T/O clones such as the
various Hallicrafters, Stromberg-Carlson, RCA and such, also after the
rectifier.
Peter,

You are making some very bad assumptions here, I guess it just goes to
show that even you are human. Not only is my knowledge not
encyclopedic, as you are so fond of saying, but it is essentially
nonexistent as regards TOs and "T/O clones". My knowledge in this area
barely extends beyond my assumption that the 50A1 is used in a DC
circuit in the "T/O clone" type of application. Given that, what I am
curious about is what the "AC circuit" applications are that the eBay
seller is talking about? I don't really care if your circuit is
equivalent to the eBay circuit or not! However it does occur to me that
there is one potential case where your circuit could get in trouble even
in DC circuits, and that is if some "clone" manufacturer wired the pins
on the 50A1 the other way around from the TO, so that the DC current
flowed the opposite direction through the "tube", that could cause
trouble with your circuit, hopefully all the "clone" makers wired the
50A1 the same way around.


Regards,

John Byrns
--
Surf my web pages at, http://fmamradios.com/
Jim Mueller
2007-07-15 01:17:46 UTC
Permalink
If you really need it to operate on AC or if you are worried that some
circuit might be wired the other way around, just add a full wave bridge
rectifier ahead of the regulator in the module.

If you use this on AC it will not behave like a real 50A1. The real ballast
would put out a sine wave with 50mA rms value. The solid-state version
would be a 50mA square wave. It's still 50mA rms, just a different
waveform. As long as the circuit didn't depend on a higher peak value from
the sine wave, it would be OK.

For AC operation, either use a fast recovery rectifier or bypass each diode
with a capacitor to avoid adding an annoying buzz to nearby radios. This
isn't necessary for DC operation since the diodes don't switch.
--
Jim Mueller ***@nospam.com

To get my real email address, replace wrongname with eportiz. Then replace
nospam with sacbeemail.
Post by John Byrns
Post by John Byrns
Post by Paul P
Post by John Byrns
How does that circuit handle the AC mentioned in the eBay listing?
I did not read the listing but this regulator shows up after the 1/2 wave
selenium rectifier in the TO circuits.
Yes, that is exactly what I assumed in the case of the TO, but the eBay
ad said "Will work on AC as well as DC circuits just like a 50A1, so it
should replace 50A1 tubes in other radios as well." It isn't clear
precisely what the seller meant by this statement but it sound's like
Peter's circuit isn't an exact workalike for the unit offered on eBay.
<snip>
Post by John Byrns
I don't really care if your circuit is
equivalent to the eBay circuit or not! However it does occur to me that
there is one potential case where your circuit could get in trouble even
in DC circuits, and that is if some "clone" manufacturer wired the pins
on the 50A1 the other way around from the TO, so that the DC current
flowed the opposite direction through the "tube", that could cause
trouble with your circuit, hopefully all the "clone" makers wired the
50A1 the same way around.
Regards,
John Byrns
--
Surf my web pages at, http://fmamradios.com/
Jeffrey D Angus
2007-07-14 04:12:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tom Biasi
You can buy a 50A1 for about that price. Unless your goal is to
turn your whole radio into a solid state one.
In fixing a radio, specifically something like the Zenith TO, my
goal is to have a radio I don't have to work on twice. And one
that will perform as well or better as original. Especially if
it can be made to work even better than the original engineers
imagined possible.

It's not like we're talking about gutting the radio and putting
some import AM/FM single chip abortion from Wal-Mart in it's
place

They never came with a 1N3019 diode across the filament either,
but that's the first thing I do after the paper and black beauty
caps and replacing the selenium rectifier with a silicon one.

Would I buy a solid state replacement for a 12BE6 to put in an
AA5 table radio? Probably not. Nor would I bother with a 1LA6
cobbled together. Would I buy a solid state 1L6 that has been
properly designed to work better than the original and NOT detune
the dial tracking? In a heart beat.

There's rumors of a 1U4 replacement (by the same guy) with a
(I think) Murata 10 KHz bandwidth ceramic filter included. Nice
sharp filter skirts. Should make the TO's even more enjoyable
to tune around and listen to.

Jeff
--
RESTRICTED AREA. Anyone intruding shall immediately become subject to
the jurisdiction of military law. Intruders will be subject to lethal
force, without warning, and on sight. USE OF DEADLY FORCE IS AUTHORIZED
under the Internal Security Act of 1950.
Tom Biasi
2007-07-14 10:11:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jeffrey D Angus
Post by Tom Biasi
You can buy a 50A1 for about that price. Unless your goal is to
turn your whole radio into a solid state one.
In fixing a radio, specifically something like the Zenith TO, my
goal is to have a radio I don't have to work on twice. And one
that will perform as well or better as original. Especially if
it can be made to work even better than the original engineers
imagined possible.
It's not like we're talking about gutting the radio and putting
some import AM/FM single chip abortion from Wal-Mart in it's
place
They never came with a 1N3019 diode across the filament either,
but that's the first thing I do after the paper and black beauty
caps and replacing the selenium rectifier with a silicon one.
Would I buy a solid state replacement for a 12BE6 to put in an
AA5 table radio? Probably not. Nor would I bother with a 1LA6
cobbled together. Would I buy a solid state 1L6 that has been
properly designed to work better than the original and NOT detune
the dial tracking? In a heart beat.
There's rumors of a 1U4 replacement (by the same guy) with a
(I think) Murata 10 KHz bandwidth ceramic filter included. Nice
sharp filter skirts. Should make the TO's even more enjoyable
to tune around and listen to.
Jeff
--
RESTRICTED AREA. Anyone intruding shall immediately become subject to
the jurisdiction of military law. Intruders will be subject to lethal
force, without warning, and on sight. USE OF DEADLY FORCE IS AUTHORIZED
under the Internal Security Act of 1950.
I understand what you mean. I like to keep them as natural as possible.
Its no trick to improve on an old radio with modern parts.
I have many requests to add the FM chip to old car radios and I just won't
do it.
I force myself to throw in a solid state vibrator and diode 0Z4 but if it
were mine I wouldn't.
I in no way look down on those who upgrade for everyday use. I like them as
designed and built for the period.

Regards,
Tom
Paul P
2007-07-14 11:59:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tom Biasi
I in no way look down on those who upgrade for everyday use. I like them
as designed and built for the period.
Regards,
Tom
I recommend using the Solid State 50A1 and keeping the good operational
nitrogen filed 50A1 in the battery compartment. It is a consumable tube
that burn out much much faster than a vacuumed tube.

Since it is a plug in there is no degradation of collectors value, once you
replace the SS with the Tube. Now if you modified the chassis with a
resistor or directly soldered in the current regulator that's another story.

Paul P.
Tom Biasi
2007-07-14 12:26:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul P
Post by Tom Biasi
I in no way look down on those who upgrade for everyday use. I like them
as designed and built for the period.
Regards,
Tom
I recommend using the Solid State 50A1 and keeping the good operational
nitrogen filed 50A1 in the battery compartment. It is a consumable tube
that burn out much much faster than a vacuumed tube.
Since it is a plug in there is no degradation of collectors value, once
you replace the SS with the Tube. Now if you modified the chassis with a
resistor or directly soldered in the current regulator that's another story.
Paul P.
Thanks for the tip.
What if you went back in time and had to make it work with what was
available? That's how I feel about the radios. That's where I get the most
enjoyment out of hearing them play.
To each his own.
Regards,
Tom
Peter Wieck
2007-07-14 16:05:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tom Biasi
Post by Paul P
Post by Tom Biasi
I in no way look down on those who upgrade for everyday use. I like them
as designed and built for the period.
Regards,
Tom
I recommend using the Solid State 50A1 and keeping the good operational
nitrogen filed 50A1 in the battery compartment. It is a consumable tube
that burn out much much faster than a vacuumed tube.
Since it is a plug in there is no degradation of collectors value, once
you replace the SS with the Tube. Now if you modified the chassis with a
resistor or directly soldered in the current regulator that's another story.
Paul P.
Thanks for the tip.
What if you went back in time and had to make it work with what was
available? That's how I feel about the radios. That's where I get the most
enjoyment out of hearing them play.
To each his own.
Regards,
Tom- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Tom:

Your choice to make as you see fit, of course.

The analogy I make in these cases is the vintage automobile. Would you
use single-weight, non-detergent oil and poor quality filters or would
you use the best possible oil you could find? Would you use anti-
freeze in the brake system or would you rebuild with modern seal
materials and use brake fluid? Would you use resistor plugs and
silicon-type plug wires (looks the same)? Would you use vintage-type
paints or modern paints? And on and on.

We are not limited to the technology available 60 years ago, we have
absolutely superior technology available that will allow us to extend
the life of these vintage beasts well beyond what was ever expected
when they were new. In point of fact, with modern dacron dial string,
poly caps and high-quality electrolytics, silicon diodes and much more
stable resistors, modern wire, glues, dyes and other parts, we
actually have the opportunity to make the case of a T/O to be the part
with the shortest life expectation.

Quite a change.

Yeah... I am investigating a small low-power SW transmitter in
addition to my SSTRAN and Ramsey, although I think the third-world and
religious broadcasters will provide signal for at least another 50
years to come. But that is an awfully limited palette from which to
choose.


Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA
Tom Biasi
2007-07-14 16:28:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Wieck
Post by Tom Biasi
Post by Paul P
Post by Tom Biasi
I in no way look down on those who upgrade for everyday use. I like them
as designed and built for the period.
Regards,
Tom
I recommend using the Solid State 50A1 and keeping the good operational
nitrogen filed 50A1 in the battery compartment. It is a consumable tube
that burn out much much faster than a vacuumed tube.
Since it is a plug in there is no degradation of collectors value, once
you replace the SS with the Tube. Now if you modified the chassis with a
resistor or directly soldered in the current regulator that's another story.
Paul P.
Thanks for the tip.
What if you went back in time and had to make it work with what was
available? That's how I feel about the radios. That's where I get the most
enjoyment out of hearing them play.
To each his own.
Regards,
Tom- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Your choice to make as you see fit, of course.
The analogy I make in these cases is the vintage automobile. Would you
use single-weight, non-detergent oil and poor quality filters or would
you use the best possible oil you could find? Would you use anti-
freeze in the brake system or would you rebuild with modern seal
materials and use brake fluid? Would you use resistor plugs and
silicon-type plug wires (looks the same)? Would you use vintage-type
paints or modern paints? And on and on.
We are not limited to the technology available 60 years ago, we have
absolutely superior technology available that will allow us to extend
the life of these vintage beasts well beyond what was ever expected
when they were new. In point of fact, with modern dacron dial string,
poly caps and high-quality electrolytics, silicon diodes and much more
stable resistors, modern wire, glues, dyes and other parts, we
actually have the opportunity to make the case of a T/O to be the part
with the shortest life expectation.
Quite a change.
Yeah... I am investigating a small low-power SW transmitter in
addition to my SSTRAN and Ramsey, although I think the third-world and
religious broadcasters will provide signal for at least another 50
years to come. But that is an awfully limited palette from which to
choose.
Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA
Your points are very well taken.
Thanks.

Tom
John Byrns
2007-07-14 19:18:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Wieck
Yeah... I am investigating a small low-power SW transmitter in
addition to my SSTRAN and Ramsey, although I think the third-world and
religious broadcasters will provide signal for at least another 50
years to come. But that is an awfully limited palette from which to
choose.
If you like the SSTRAN why not modify one to operate in the SW band? My
knowledge doesn't include the SW bands, i.e. 1.7 MHz to 30 MHz, what SW
frequency do you want to operate on? I don't have my SSTRAN manual
handy, but I would think it might be easy to dead bug an additional IC
on the board to increase the divide ratio of the existing divider chain
so it would operate in the SW bands, or maybe the existing divider chain
already can do the job with some simple rewiring. Then all that would
need to be done would be to change a few components in the VCO and
antenna matching network and you would have an operational SW
transmitter with all the features of the SSTRAN.

I am curious why you want an SW transmitter given that the TO also
receives the MW broadcast band? I can see the need for a SW transmitter
if one is working with SW only radios, but it seems lees important when
the radios in question include the MW broadcast band.


Regards,

John Byrns
--
Surf my web pages at, http://fmamradios.com/
Peter Wieck
2007-07-14 20:32:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Byrns
I am curious why you want an SW transmitter given that the TO also
receives the MW broadcast band? I can see the need for a SW transmitter
if one is working with SW only radios, but it seems lees important when
the radios in question include the MW broadcast band.
John:

For the same reason I have an FM transmitter even though I could
simply play whatever CD I wish at the location I wish rather than
running a separate transmitter.

Because I can. "Need" does not enter into it.

Analog radio one way or another is on its way out in any meaningful
form. With few exceptions, most of it is canned and mindless, what is
not is often not to my taste. So I would like to have the capacity to
actually have meaningful noise come out of my vintage equipment into
the future.

Units that will accomplish what I need run anywhere from $40 or so,
much cheaper than kluging an SSTRAN.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA
John Byrns
2007-07-16 15:27:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Wieck
Post by John Byrns
I am curious why you want an SW transmitter given that the TO also
receives the MW broadcast band? I can see the need for a SW transmitter
if one is working with SW only radios, but it seems lees important when
the radios in question include the MW broadcast band.
For the same reason I have an FM transmitter even though I could
simply play whatever CD I wish at the location I wish rather than
running a separate transmitter.
Because I can. "Need" does not enter into it.
Of course "Need" doesn't enter into it, "Need" doesn't enter into
anything discussed in this group, at least On Topic discussions. But we
usually have some reason, or rational, for our wants and what we are
doing here.
Post by Peter Wieck
Analog radio one way or another is on its way out in any meaningful
form. With few exceptions, most of it is canned and mindless, what is
not is often not to my taste. So I would like to have the capacity to
actually have meaningful noise come out of my vintage equipment into
the future.
What I was curious about was why you don't just broadcast to the TO
using a MW broadcast band TX? I will interpret your answer above as
meaning that your reason is a desire for completeness.
Post by Peter Wieck
Units that will accomplish what I need run anywhere from $40 or so,
much cheaper than kluging an SSTRAN.
It seems strange that $40.00 could accomplish what you "Need" given that
you have rejected the $40.00 solution for the MW band, in favor of the
SSTRAN, why not also use a $40.00 TX for MW?

Without digging out my SSTRAN manual it is not clear that modifying an
SSTRAN for SW operation would be a "kludge". The changes to the VCO and
antenna matching networks would be a simple replacement of a few parts
with similar parts of different values. Even some commercial broadcast
transmitters used to require this sort of component change to operate in
different parts of the band. The only possible "kludge" would be if it
was necessary dead bug an IC to modify the frequency divider chain, but
the existing ICs might have the capability of doing the job with a minor
wiring change which might involve as little as cutting a foil and adding
a "greenie". I will have to dig out the manual and see if this would be
a "kludge" or not, stay tuned.


Regards,

John Byrns
--
Surf my web pages at, http://fmamradios.com/
Michael A. Terrell
2007-07-14 17:49:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tom Biasi
I understand what you mean. I like to keep them as natural as possible.
Its no trick to improve on an old radio with modern parts.
I have many requests to add the FM chip to old car radios and I just won't
do it.
I force myself to throw in a solid state vibrator and diode 0Z4 but if it
were mine I wouldn't.
I in no way look down on those who upgrade for everyday use. I like them as
designed and built for the period.
What is wrong with solid state vibrators? They were in use in the mid
'60s, and I used them when a radio needed a new vibrator. The problem
with the originals were that they used a pair of unmarked TO-3 Germanium
power transistors to drive the vibrator transformer, and filled the
standard vibrator can with sand to keep things from moving. They ran a
little hot, so the internal leakage would increase. Too many hours of
operation on a hot day, and one of the transistors would short.

Most of the radios that crossed my bench were tube in those days,
whether they were table radios or car radios.
--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
Tom Biasi
2007-07-14 19:35:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael A. Terrell
Post by Tom Biasi
I understand what you mean. I like to keep them as natural as possible.
Its no trick to improve on an old radio with modern parts.
I have many requests to add the FM chip to old car radios and I just won't
do it.
I force myself to throw in a solid state vibrator and diode 0Z4 but if it
were mine I wouldn't.
I in no way look down on those who upgrade for everyday use. I like them as
designed and built for the period.
What is wrong with solid state vibrators? They were in use in the mid
'60s, and I used them when a radio needed a new vibrator. The problem
with the originals were that they used a pair of unmarked TO-3 Germanium
power transistors to drive the vibrator transformer, and filled the
standard vibrator can with sand to keep things from moving. They ran a
little hot, so the internal leakage would increase. Too many hours of
operation on a hot day, and one of the transistors would short.
Most of the radios that crossed my bench were tube in those days,
whether they were table radios or car radios.
--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.
Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
The ss vibrators don't buzz.
I do agree that they are a pita, and most OEM units don't work when you get
them.
Tom
Michael A. Terrell
2007-07-14 19:41:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tom Biasi
The ss vibrators don't buzz.
I do agree that they are a pita, and most OEM units don't work when you get
them.
It wouldn't be very hard to make one that did. A sot ion core with
the winding connected between the collectors and a small fixed pole
piece and you could have all the vibrator noise you want. In fact, some
of the very early solid state vibrators had a transformer in them to
drive the base connection. They were so poorly designed that they did
buzz. They were also the ones that failed the fastest.
--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
Michael Black
2007-07-14 22:09:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael A. Terrell
What is wrong with solid state vibrators? They were in use in the mid
'60s, and I used them when a radio needed a new vibrator. The problem
with the originals were that they used a pair of unmarked TO-3 Germanium
power transistors to drive the vibrator transformer, and filled the
standard vibrator can with sand to keep things from moving. They ran a
little hot, so the internal leakage would increase. Too many hours of
operation on a hot day, and one of the transistors would short.
That's a good point. That's now forty years in the past (a span
that would take 1967 back to 1927), which is now itself historical.
I'm sure many were really glad to give up those silly vibrators, so
realistically it is "authentic" to switch out the mechanical vibrators.

Unless the failure of those early transistors caused too many problems,
nobody at the time would have said "no, I'm keeping the mechanical
vibrator, I want it to be authentic".


Michael
Michael A. Terrell
2007-07-16 04:50:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Black
Post by Michael A. Terrell
What is wrong with solid state vibrators? They were in use in the mid
'60s, and I used them when a radio needed a new vibrator. The problem
with the originals were that they used a pair of unmarked TO-3 Germanium
power transistors to drive the vibrator transformer, and filled the
standard vibrator can with sand to keep things from moving. They ran a
little hot, so the internal leakage would increase. Too many hours of
operation on a hot day, and one of the transistors would short.
That's a good point. That's now forty years in the past (a span
that would take 1967 back to 1927), which is now itself historical.
I'm sure many were really glad to give up those silly vibrators, so
realistically it is "authentic" to switch out the mechanical vibrators.
Unless the failure of those early transistors caused too many problems,
nobody at the time would have said "no, I'm keeping the mechanical
vibrator, I want it to be authentic".
Michael
The shops that didn't want call backs used the best parts they could
find. The U-testem type self service tube tester locations sold the
original mechanical version, with a very short warranty. Even then, if
the buffer capacitor wasn't replaced, a new vibrator might only last
their 30 days.
--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
ken scharf
2007-07-14 13:18:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Omer Suleimanagich
This guy does some great stuff!
Omer
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110146623026
From his descriptions of the 1L6 and 1U4 devices they not only replace
the tubes, but give better performance without need for re-alignment.
Replacing the tubes with these solid state devices should be looked at
in the same light as a substitution of a 'hotter' tube for more gain.
Would you do that or keep the radio original? Now if the solid state
gizmos were house in a glass bottle that even LOOKED like a tube there
would be no question at all.

In the case of the 1L6, since these bottles are getting rare, or at
least very costly a well engineered solid state replacement is a good
idea. In the case of the 1U4, these tubes are still (almost) a dime a
dozen and will always remain in better supply than the radios that used
them. However, they were never a very hot tube and improving the
performance of a radio using them by a sub might be worth consideration.
Uncle Peter
2007-07-21 21:58:10 UTC
Permalink
"ken scharf" <***@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:034mi.23706.
In the case of the 1L6, since these bottles are getting rare, or at least
very costly a well engineered solid state replacement is a good idea. In
the case of the 1U4, these tubes are still (almost) a dime a dozen and
will always remain in better supply than the radios that used them.
However, they were never a very hot tube and improving the performance of
a radio using them by a sub might be worth consideration.
I think they are acceptable, since they are plug in and don't involve
modifying the set to be used. I wonder how much additional
selectivity is really needed for these sets? After a point the
LO drift and tuning resolution will begin to offset the benefits.

Pete
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