6AR11 Compactron in Regenerative receiver?

[Uncle Peter]

T'was thinking of using one of these in an AC regenerative
receiver. But, is the medium mu triode section too hot
to work as a good regenerative detector? Anyone try
using one of these tubes (medium mu triode, high mu
triode, pentode amp).

Pete

[Bill]

Post by Uncle Peter
T'was thinking of using one of these in an AC regenerative
receiver. But, is the medium mu triode section too hot
to work as a good regenerative detector? Anyone try
using one of these tubes (medium mu triode, high mu
triode, pentode amp).
Pete

Pete,
Well, here's an 6AF11 project...
http://www.jvgavila.com/compac.htm

Is this what you are trying to build?

-Bill

[Uncle Peter]

Post by Bill

Post by Bill
Well, here's an 6AF11 project...

http://www.jvgavila.com/compac.htm
Is this what you are trying to build?
-Bill

Damn. Someone did it.

Pete

[Ken Scharf]

Post by Uncle Peter

Post by Bill

Post by Bill
Well, here's an 6AF11 project...

http://www.jvgavila.com/compac.htm
Is this what you are trying to build?
-Bill

Damn. Someone did it.
Pete

I was thinking about that one too. That circuit used
the high mu triode as the detector. I was thinking of
making the other triode act as a reflex grounded grid
rf and grounded cathode af stage. There was a receiver
in pop'tronics years ago that did this, using a 12AT7
and a 6AK6.

[Uncle Peter]

Post by Ken Scharf
I was thinking about that one too. That circuit used
the high mu triode as the detector. I was thinking of
making the other triode act as a reflex grounded grid
rf and grounded cathode af stage. There was a receiver
in pop'tronics years ago that did this, using a 12AT7
and a 6AK6.

Hello Ken

where does GE spell which triode is which? I've been
through the data sheets four times and darned if I can
find it (not unusual for me!) I would have assumed that
the second triode in the schematic representation of
the tube's base diagram would have been triode 2,
which has the lower gain of the two.. That is the one
being used as the detector in the radio. Guess I
would have assumed incorrectly.

Peter

[Robert Casey]

Post by Uncle Peter

Post by Ken Scharf
I was thinking about that one too. That circuit used
the high mu triode as the detector. I was thinking of
making the other triode act as a reflex grounded grid
rf and grounded cathode af stage. There was a receiver
in pop'tronics years ago that did this, using a 12AT7
and a 6AK6.

Hello Ken
where does GE spell which triode is which?

In their _essential characterstics_ data book. Section 1 (pins 5 6 8)
is the high mu triode. Section 2 (pins 3 4 7) is the lower mu triode.
Other data books are sometimes not clear on this.

[Ken Scharf]

Post by Uncle Peter

Post by Ken Scharf
I was thinking about that one too. That circuit used
the high mu triode as the detector. I was thinking of
making the other triode act as a reflex grounded grid
rf and grounded cathode af stage. There was a receiver
in pop'tronics years ago that did this, using a 12AT7
and a 6AK6.

Hello Ken
where does GE spell which triode is which? I've been
through the data sheets four times and darned if I can
find it (not unusual for me!) I would have assumed that
the second triode in the schematic representation of
the tube's base diagram would have been triode 2,
which has the lower gain of the two.. That is the one
being used as the detector in the radio. Guess I
would have assumed incorrectly.
Peter

Well I don't have the GE manual, but in the RCA receiving
tube manual the baseing diagram for the 6AF11 does call
out triode 1 and triode 2 (ie:gt1, gt2, pt1, pt2, kt1, kt2).
Then in the charactistics section the three units are
tabulated (triode 1, triode 2, pentode) and the Mu figure
is given for each triode.
Triode 1 (pins 5,6,8) has a mu of 68, triode 2 ( pins 3,4,7)
has a mu of 41.

[Bob]

I did a one tube compactron regenie with a triple triode. Grounded grid RF
amp (high mu) reflexed as a grid driven audio amp, Medium mu detector, and
high mu audio out.
http://www.geocities.com/ralarocc/

Follow the last link on the page for pix and schematic
--
-------------------------
Bob La Rocca
Lindenhurst, NY

Post by Ken Scharf

Post by Uncle Peter

Post by Bill

Post by Bill
Well, here's an 6AF11 project...

http://www.jvgavila.com/compac.htm
Is this what you are trying to build?
-Bill

Damn. Someone did it.
Pete

I was thinking about that one too. That circuit used
the high mu triode as the detector. I was thinking of
making the other triode act as a reflex grounded grid
rf and grounded cathode af stage. There was a receiver
in pop'tronics years ago that did this, using a 12AT7
and a 6AK6.

[Sam Byrams]

Why build regens? Superhets are far superior. Only licensed hams or
GROT with a spectrum analyzer (8591E or equivalent, in current cal)
should be allowed to hook a regen to any antenna longer than two feet
unless it has a RF stage before the detector. Old cheapskates read
Lindsay books, tear up good stuff to build their shitty regens, and
crap up the bands when they feed RF out the antenna.

[John Stewart]

Post by Sam Byrams
Why build regens? Superhets are far superior. Only licensed hams or
GROT with a spectrum analyzer (8591E or equivalent, in current cal)
should be allowed to hook a regen to any antenna longer than two feet
unless it has a RF stage before the detector. Old cheapskates read
Lindsay books, tear up good stuff to build their shitty regens, and
crap up the bands when they feed RF out the antenna.

I think Sam Byrams has a head problem. His only comments are negative.
How about that, Sam? And I don't need a lecture!!!!!!

John Stewart

[John Byrns]

Post by John Stewart

Post by Sam Byrams
Why build regens? Superhets are far superior. Only licensed hams or
GROT with a spectrum analyzer (8591E or equivalent, in current cal)
should be allowed to hook a regen to any antenna longer than two feet
unless it has a RF stage before the detector. Old cheapskates read
Lindsay books, tear up good stuff to build their shitty regens, and
crap up the bands when they feed RF out the antenna.

I think Sam Byrams has a head problem. His only comments are negative.
How about that, Sam? And I don't need a lecture!!!!!!

But Sam makes a good point here, regenerative receivers are sort of crude,
but I suppose that this why they are popular, anyone can make them work
reasonably, while a superhet requires another level of skill.


Regards,

John Byrns


Surf my web pages at, http://users.rcn.com/jbyrns/

[Michael Black]

Post by John Byrns

Post by John Stewart

Post by Sam Byrams
Why build regens? Superhets are far superior. Only licensed hams or
GROT with a spectrum analyzer (8591E or equivalent, in current cal)
should be allowed to hook a regen to any antenna longer than two feet
unless it has a RF stage before the detector. Old cheapskates read
Lindsay books, tear up good stuff to build their shitty regens, and
crap up the bands when they feed RF out the antenna.

I think Sam Byrams has a head problem. His only comments are negative.
How about that, Sam? And I don't need a lecture!!!!!!

But Sam makes a good point here, regenerative receivers are sort of crude,
but I suppose that this why they are popular, anyone can make them work
reasonably, while a superhet requires another level of skill.
Regards,
John Byrns

But they help you understand radio history. And sometimes when someone
goes back to the origin point, they may come up with something interesting.

Don't forget that at one time "supergainers" were fairly common (at least
in the magazines, I have no idea how common they were in use). These
were regen receivers with converters ahead of them, or from another angle,
superhets with regen detectors. They got around the problems noted, but
made for a simpler superhet with better performance than a simple superhet
made without the regen detector.

Regens don't have to be practical. They were a massive step up when they
came along, and provide some key bricks to the foundation of radio. But
few do look into them in any detail, because they are perceived as nothing
more than simple construction articles.

Michael

[Bill Sheppard]

Although restricted to FM, here's a fascinating page on regen and
superregen detectors, FM slope detection etc. A contribution by Bill
Turner is mentioned- www.somerset.net/arm/fm_only_lowtech.html

[Yardleyite]

Regens are "Kewlbeanerz"! A good one can work about as well as a superhet
albeit a bit of selectivity.

I guess it depends on what one wants: Some people like vanilla, others
chocolate.

I like strawberry.

Long live the "Squealers"!
Joe Cro N3IBX

[William Sommerwerck]

For myself, I like the most-advanced technology.

But anyone who categorically dislikes regens obviously never had a Knight Space
Spanner! This lowly regen was the first SW radio for a lot of kids. It was fun
to put together and fun to play with.

[Bill Sheppard]

...Sh**ty regens,... crap up the bands
when they feed RF out the antenna.

Oh? With the tons of RFI from gadzillion sources already saturating the
BCB, one little regen set is sure gonna make a difference.
Bill(oc)

[John H. Smith]

Subject: Re: 6AR11 Compactron in Regenerative receiver?
Date: 7/8/2004 6:49 PM Central Daylight Time
Why build regens? Superhets are far superior. Only licensed hams or
GROT with a spectrum analyzer (8591E or equivalent, in current cal)
should be allowed to hook a regen to any antenna longer than two feet
unless it has a RF stage before the detector. Old cheapskates read
Lindsay books, tear up good stuff to build their shitty regens, and
crap up the bands when they feed RF out the antenna.

As Kilgore Trout discovered at the end of his eternal quest, the answer is :
why not?
Neutrodyne

[Sam Byrams]

I probably came off a little negative there, but I've had regens go
off howling and had my ears ringing for days (maybe shouldn't have
used such a big amplifier on the audio out), and besides, alignment
equals technicianship and if you don't learn to align you get little
educational benefit.

[WA2ISE]

Post by Sam Byrams
I probably came off a little negative there, but I've had regens go
off howling and had my ears ringing for days (maybe shouldn't have
used such a big amplifier on the audio out), and besides, alignment
equals technicianship and if you don't learn to align you get little
educational benefit.

Superhets can do that too if you don't have good lead dress and/or
shielding. But some el-cheapo SW sets created BFOs just by inducing
regen in the IF stage.

[Uncle Peter]

Post by Sam Byrams
I probably came off a little negative there, but I've had regens go
off howling and had my ears ringing for days (maybe shouldn't have
used such a big amplifier on the audio out), and besides, alignment
equals technicianship and if you don't learn to align you get little
educational benefit.

Odd, but in the past ten years we've run regenerative receiver
articles by Charles Citchen (sp?) in Communications Quarterly
Magazine, and more recently, QST has run more of his
cutting-edge regenerative designs. There's a lot of mileage left
to had from doing things as simply as possible.

Pete k1zjh

[Michael Black]

Post by Uncle Peter

Post by Sam Byrams
I probably came off a little negative there, but I've had regens go
off howling and had my ears ringing for days (maybe shouldn't have
used such a big amplifier on the audio out), and besides, alignment
equals technicianship and if you don't learn to align you get little
educational benefit.

Odd, but in the past ten years we've run regenerative receiver
articles by Charles Citchen (sp?) in Communications Quarterly
Magazine, and more recently, QST has run more of his
cutting-edge regenerative designs. There's a lot of mileage left
to had from doing things as simply as possible.
Pete k1zjh

It's Kitchen.

I was going to mention him when I replied, but I bring up his name
every time regens come up.

The two articles in Communication Quarterly, on regens and superregens,
do stand out. He went back to the origins of the detectors, and then moved
forward to present some solid state circuits. Unlike so many, he has
gone back to the origins and understood them, and has tried to improve on
them. Most regen articles over the years have simply been variants on
what has been published in recent years. I see descriptions of superregens,
and they often do show a lack of understanding, and certainly don't grasp
that there are two oscillators working in there, and using one active device
is merely a cost cutting scheme.

Michael

[Bill Turner]

THE BLIND LEADING THE BLIND.







CHECK MY WEBSITE: www.dialcover.com
Bill Turner, excuse caps, short answers, stroke.
Business SASE, each order a copy of The Pocket Resource Guide.

[Jeff Goldsmith]

What a bunch of Radio Corporation inspired patent propaganda. All the
early superhets I have mix the local oscillator in the antenna circuit.
This major concern as applied to regenerative receivers is glossed over
as 'collateral damage'; a necessary drawback of the 'superior'
superheterodyne.


Jeff Goldsmith

[Sam Byrams]

Post by Jeff Goldsmith
What a bunch of Radio Corporation inspired patent propaganda. All the
early superhets I have mix the local oscillator in the antenna circuit.
This major concern as applied to regenerative receivers is glossed over
as 'collateral damage'; a necessary drawback of the 'superior'
superheterodyne.

The WWII era ships had a LF regen receiver that would put out a
signal that U-boats would use to find and sink ships. They got around
it by building RF-tight superhets and TRF sets and on passenger ships
confiscating the tubes out of people's radios. But several ships were
sunk that way.

[Uncle Peter]

Dang, should read 6AF11! Not 6AR11.

Post by Uncle Peter
T'was thinking of using one of these in an AC regenerative
receiver. But, is the medium mu triode section too hot
to work as a good regenerative detector? Anyone try
using one of these tubes (medium mu triode, high mu
triode, pentode amp).
Pete

[Ken Scharf]

Post by Uncle Peter
Dang, should read 6AF11! Not 6AR11.

Post by Uncle Peter
T'was thinking of using one of these in an AC regenerative
receiver. But, is the medium mu triode section too hot
to work as a good regenerative detector? Anyone try
using one of these tubes (medium mu triode, high mu
triode, pentode amp).
Pete

We figured it out.