Talking House transmitter

Post by Bob Campbell
Anyone here using a Talking House for your OTR and music over your old
tube radios?

I do.

Post by Bob Campbell
The 4.6 model was my main transmitter for OTR and music for over a year
before I got the SSTRAN. The SSTRAN sounds better than the 4.6 model.
The 5.0 models sound very nearly as good as the SSTRAN, but put out a
*much* stronger signal off the wire antenna. In side by side
comparisons with both sending the same program, you can barely tell the
difference between the 5.0 Talking House and the SSTRAN.

Mine is an ST1007B made by Realty electronics. Are we talking about
the same unit? Either a competitor or a rebranded unit? It has digital
frequency tuning and a cassette player.

Post by Bob Campbell
Yes, its true. I couldn't believe it either.

The SSTRan is based on the Wenzel transmitter. The last ss trasnmitter I
built was based on the wenzel's with a few mods. I say "was" as I blew
up the unit moons ago after a bad transformer "swap" and never built
another unit after that. Been using one
of my 6BM8 tube design for the CD player and the realty one downstairs
with the PC. To be honest, it's been probably 6 months or more that I
haven't used any of those. But the Realty one supply a solid and perfect
audio signal with barely a foot of wire.

Post by Bob Campbell
I currently have 2 of them running 24/7, one on 630 kHz and the other on
800 kHz.

I'm curious. How do you feed audio to that tansmitter? I removed the
cassette player on mine and modified the head amp to accomodate the
PC output -read: EQ and gain mods-. I have recommended those units
for quite sometime now. Hard to beat the quality for the price.

Syl

Brenda Ann

2009-01-03 05:22:36 UTC

Post by Syl
The SSTRan is based on the Wenzel transmitter. The last ss trasnmitter I
built was based on the wenzel's with a few mods. I say "was" as I blew
up the unit moons ago after a bad transformer "swap" and never built
another unit after that. Been using one
of my 6BM8 tube design for the CD player and the realty one downstairs
with the PC. To be honest, it's been probably 6 months or more that I
haven't used any of those. But the Realty one supply a solid and perfect
audio signal with barely a foot of wire.

Post by Bob Campbell
I currently have 2 of them running 24/7, one on 630 kHz and the other on
800 kHz.

You guys have all the luck. :) Cheapest I can find on ebay for Talking
House transmitters (there are only two) is currently at $80 for just one
unit... with several days to go. The other one is something like $140 BIN.

Bob Campbell

2009-01-03 14:32:33 UTC

Post by Brenda Ann

Post by Brenda Ann
You guys have all the luck. :) Cheapest I can find on ebay for Talking

House transmitters (there are only two) is currently at $80 for just one
unit... with several days to go. The other one is something like $140 BIN.

I am currently showing 5 on eBay. The 2 you mention plus 3 others
currently at $24.99, $20.00 and $6.50. I use "talking house transmitter"
as my search. I was checking every day for a few weeks when I was
seriously looking

Use the "Completed Listings" option on the left to see what they have been
going for. 2 sold just yesterday for $30 BIN each, and a 5 pack went for
$202.

Radiola

2009-01-03 17:12:34 UTC

B,

The old saying that it pays to advertise applies here. :) You know
that as soon as it was noted on here that these transmitters were for
sale cheap, I'm sure there were tons of folks interested in these.

My hats off to Bob C though for being observant and letting us know.
It makes sense with the real estate market being what it is at the
moment.

Keep the faith. I've seen a few that are around the $20 mark or less,
but bidding has a few days to go.

G

Bob Campbell

2009-01-03 17:20:46 UTC

Post by Radiola
Keep the faith. I've seen a few that are around the $20 mark or less,
but bidding has a few days to go.

Yeah. A couple of years ago, these things were going for $100 *minimum*
each. Like I said, I got 5 new 5.0 models for $160 including shipping a
few weeks ago. Yesterday 2 went for $30 each. The first one I bought
(the 4.6 model) was about 18 months ago and cost about $110 with shipping.
At the time that was a good deal.

Usually there are 8 or 10 or so on any given day, and the "5 packs" are
getting more common also. Keep watching, they are common on eBay these
days.

Bob Campbell

2009-01-03 14:25:43 UTC

Post by Syl
Mine is an ST1007B made by Realty electronics. Are we talking about
the same unit? Either a competitor or a rebranded unit? It has digital
frequency tuning and a cassette player.

Sounds like a different, perhaps older model. The models I have use a
flash RAM to store a 5 minute message that repeats, or you can flip a switch
on the back to transmit "live" with any audio source.

Post by Syl
I'm curious. How do you feed audio to that tansmitter? I removed the
cassette player on mine and modified the head amp to accomodate the
PC output -read: EQ and gain mods-. I have recommended those units
for quite sometime now. Hard to beat the quality for the price.

They have a line in jack on the back. I simply have a cable running from
the audio out of the laptop to the line in on the TH. Once you get the
audio level set correctly on the laptop (volume and EQ settings) it sounds
great.

Syl

2009-01-03 15:46:48 UTC

Post by Bob Campbell
They have a line in jack on the back. I simply have a cable running
from the audio out of the laptop to the line in on the TH. Once you
get the audio level set correctly on the laptop (volume and EQ settings)
it sounds great.

Ok. Easier than having to mod the electronics as I had to.

EQing helps a lot I found. I own a Northern Electric with
wide IF and with a good source alsmost sounds like FM.

Syl

John Byrns

2009-01-03 16:16:19 UTC

Post by Bob Campbell
I currently have 2 of them running 24/7, one on 630 kHz and the other on 800
kHz. I have an old laptop connected to each. Both are running itunes,
with one playing the 1920's Radio Network and the other playing AM 1710
Antioch.

What is "the 1920's Radio Network"? Also "AM 1710 Antioch"?

--
Regards,

John Byrns

Surf my web pages at, http://fmamradios.com/

Syl

2009-01-03 16:33:11 UTC

What is "the 1920's Radio Network"? Also "AM 1710 Antioch"?

2 OTR (Old Time Radio) radio stations on the web.
Live365.com has a bunch of those too.

John, I'll be happy to bring you into the 21st century
and introduce you to a great invention called google.
Use with discernment though...[grin]

Syl

John Byrns

2009-01-03 21:06:55 UTC

Post by Syl

What is "the 1920's Radio Network"? Also "AM 1710 Antioch"?

2 OTR (Old Time Radio) radio stations on the web.
Live365.com has a bunch of those too.
John, I'll be happy to bring you into the 21st century
and introduce you to a great invention called google.
Use with discernment though...[grin]

Syl, I've got news for you, Google is nothing new, we had it way back in the
20th century. Unfortunately the answers Google provides often aren't as useful
or interesting as those provided by the people here. I don't think I would have
noticed that "the 1920's Radio Network" is listed on iTunes if Bob hadn't
pointed it out in his response, I wonder what it takes to get an iTunes listing?

--
Regards,

John Byrns

Surf my web pages at, http://fmamradios.com/

Syl

2009-01-04 04:16:02 UTC

Post by Syl

What is "the 1920's Radio Network"? Also "AM 1710 Antioch"?

2 OTR (Old Time Radio) radio stations on the web.
Live365.com has a bunch of those too.
John, I'll be happy to bring you into the 21st century
and introduce you to a great invention called google.
Use with discernment though...[grin]

Dunno. I don't like iTunes.
I was replying in jest BTW.
Notice I said use with discernment. google isn't the answer for
everything and the answers you get may not be what you're looking for...;o)

I like live365.com Tons of interesting stations.

Syl

Tim Mullen

2009-01-08 19:18:57 UTC

Post by Syl
Notice I said use with discernment. google isn't the answer for
everything and the answers you get may not be what you're looking for...;o)

Check out streamtuner:

http://www.nongnu.org/streamtuner/

It's the google of streaming radio. Just do a search on "old time radio"
and a ton of stations pop up. You can then go clickety-click-click down
the line, hopping from one to the other just like a radio tuner.

Loading Image...

Post by Syl
I like live365.com Tons of interesting stations.

I backend my streamtuner with streamripper, which decodes streams
into individual, properly named mp3 files. Live365 sued the guy who
wrote streamripper, so I stick with Shoutcast & Xiph.

--
Tim Mullen
------------------------------------------------------------------
Am I in your basement? Looking for antique televisions, fans, etc.
------ finger this account or call anytime: (212)-463-0552 -------

Robert C

2009-01-08 20:48:57 UTC

Post by Tim Mullen
http://www.nongnu.org/streamtuner/
It's the google of streaming radio. Just do a search on "old time radio"
and a ton of stations pop up. You can then go clickety-click-click down
the line, hopping from one to the other just like a radio tuner.
http://www.gothicdigital.com/misc/otr.jpg

Post by Syl
I like live365.com Tons of interesting stations.

I backend my streamtuner with streamripper, which decodes streams
into individual, properly named mp3 files. Live365 sued the guy who
wrote streamripper, so I stick with Shoutcast & Xiph.

i also liked & used Streamtuner, however, a change at Shoutcast about 8
months ago rendered the directory function useless for shoutcast listings.
in other words, it no longer will get the shoutcast directory listings.
Xiph & Google listings still work. this affects the Dapper Drake & Debian
Etch versions.

i don't think there is anyone maintaining Streamtuner as the last time the
site was updated was in 2004.

however, Amorok fits the bill nicely. it does have the updated Shoutcast
Directory & Amorok will work with Streamripper Via a script plug-in.

Tim Mullen

2009-01-08 21:28:04 UTC

Post by Robert C
i also liked & used Streamtuner, however, a change at Shoutcast about 8
months ago rendered the directory function useless for shoutcast listings.
in other words, it no longer will get the shoutcast directory listings.
Xiph & Google listings still work. this affects the Dapper Drake & Debian
Etch versions.

There's a patch for this, but basically just change

#define SHOUTCAST_ROOT "http://www.shoutcast.com/"

to

#define SHOUTCAST_ROOT "http://classic.shoutcast.com/"

in src/plugins/shoutcast/shoutcast.c

Post by Robert C
i don't think there is anyone maintaining Streamtuner as the last time the
site was updated was in 2004.

I'm running 0.99.99-15. :) Oy. Somebody out there's picking at
it a little. I forget where I just saw this. When I get home and kick
my DSL modem (the reason why my link won't work for a few hours) I'll
look it up.

Post by Robert C
however, Amorok fits the bill nicely. it does have the updated Shoutcast
Directory & Amorok will work with Streamripper Via a script plug-in.

Hmm. Based on K, huh? I'm running Gnome on a Solaris box, but
have some bits of Qt around for other purposes. I'll have to look
into it.

Robert C

2009-01-09 05:32:24 UTC

Post by Tim Mullen
There's a patch for this, but basically just change
#define SHOUTCAST_ROOT "http://www.shoutcast.com/"
to
#define SHOUTCAST_ROOT "http://classic.shoutcast.com/"
in src/plugins/shoutcast/shoutcast.c

unfortunately, there is no such directory, however, the file that you
mention is in /usr/lib/streamtuner/plugins directory & it is a source file.
it is called shoutcast.so
it is a binary file & the only way i can open it safely is using a hex
editor (Khexeditor). i tried to edit it in that utility but, all it did was
cause streamtuner to crash at startup from segmentation fault. i am not at
the level of programming that it will take to fix that.

Post by Tim Mullen

Post by Robert C
i don't think there is anyone maintaining Streamtuner as the last time the
site was updated was in 2004.

Post by Robert C
however, Amorok fits the bill nicely. it does have the updated Shoutcast
Directory & Amorok will work with Streamripper Via a script plug-in.

Hmm. Based on K, huh? I'm running Gnome on a Solaris box, but
have some bits of Qt around for other purposes. I'll have to look
into it.

solaris box ehh
that's probably why there is such a difference in the way that streamtuner
builds differently.

Tim Mullen

2009-01-09 19:40:32 UTC

In <***@mid.individual.net> Robert C <***@spews.org> writes:

[Streamtuner patch]

Post by Robert C
unfortunately, there is no such directory, however, the file that you
mention is in /usr/lib/streamtuner/plugins directory & it is a source file.
it is called shoutcast.so
it is a binary file & the only way i can open it safely is using a hex
editor (Khexeditor). i tried to edit it in that utility but, all it did was
cause streamtuner to crash at startup from segmentation fault. i am not at
the level of programming that it will take to fix that.

Yeah, you can't do that. You need to patch the source.

Post by Robert C
solaris box ehh
that's probably why there is such a difference in the way that streamtuner
builds differently.

The key is getting a stable build enviroment. Then you have access
to a lot of cool stuff just by "./configure && make install" This is
more than some people are willing to deal with, and fair enough. But
it really isn't that hard. Remember, the compiler is the soldering
iron of software. :)

However, it sounds like Amarok does just what you need it to, and
that's great! It's more fun listening to the stuff than struggling with
software you don't really need.

Robert C

2009-01-09 20:46:30 UTC

Post by Tim Mullen
[Streamtuner patch]
Yeah, you can't do that. You need to patch the source.
The key is getting a stable build environment. Then you have access
to a lot of cool stuff just by "./configure && make install" This is
more than some people are willing to deal with, and fair enough. But
it really isn't that hard. Remember, the compiler is the soldering
iron of software. :)

i appreciate that. i will see if i can get a uncompiled version of
streamtuner & use the tools that i already have. i am no stranger to
configure, make, & checkinstall.

Post by Tim Mullen
However, it sounds like Amarok does just what you need it to, and
that's great! It's more fun listening to the stuff than struggling with
software you don't really need.

i actually like streamtuners GUI better.

thanx for the info, Tim

Tim Mullen

2009-01-09 22:37:48 UTC

Post by Robert C
i appreciate that. i will see if i can get a uncompiled version of
streamtuner & use the tools that i already have. i am no stranger to
configure, make, & checkinstall.

Grab the 0.99.99 source tarball:

http://savannah.nongnu.org/download/streamtuner/streamtuner-0.99.99.tar.gz

Unpack into /usr/local/src (or wherever). Get the patch:

ftp://cdn.debian.net/debian/pool/main/s/streamtuner/streamtuner_0.99.99-15.diff.gz

gunzip it and place it in your build root (/usr/local/src).

Now cd to /usr/local/src and do:

patch -p 0 -i streamtuner_0.99.99-15.diff

This will patch your source tree. You can cd into streamtuner-0.99.99 and
configure and make.

Post by Robert C
i actually like streamtuners GUI better.

I just thought of something else. If you resolve against files before
DNS, do a lookup of classic.shoutcast.com, then put a /etc/hosts entry in
that points www.shoutcast.com to that address, effectively fooling streamtuner
into hitting the server you need:

/etc/hosts:

www.shoutcast.com 207.200.98.25 # The address of classic.shoutcast.com

Robert C

2009-01-10 01:40:30 UTC

I just thought of something else. If you resolve against files before
DNS, do a lookup of classic.shoutcast.com, then put a /etc/hosts entry in
that points www.shoutcast.com to that address, effectively fooling
www.shoutcast.com 207.200.98.25 # The address of classic.shoutcast.com

Thanx Tim, that did the trick. at least that got me a basic list from
shoutcast.

Neon John

2009-01-08 21:48:23 UTC

Post by Robert C
i don't think there is anyone maintaining Streamtuner as the last time the
site was updated was in 2004.

http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=6172&package_id=258843

Last update 12/29/08.

JOhn
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
Who is General Failure and why is he reading my disk?

Tim Mullen

2009-01-08 22:05:22 UTC

Post by Neon John

Post by Robert C
i don't think there is anyone maintaining Streamtuner as the last time the
site was updated was in 2004.

http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=6172&package_id=258843
Last update 12/29/08.

That's streamripper. I still can't remember the canonical repository for
streamtuner 0.99.99-15, but here's a diff to bring 0.99.99 up to speed:

ftp://cdn.debian.net/debian/pool/main/s/streamtuner/streamtuner_0.99.99-15.diff.gz

Robert C

2009-01-09 02:40:54 UTC

Neon John wrote:
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=6172&package_id=258843

Post by Neon John
Last update 12/29/08.
JOhn
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
Who is General Failure and why is he reading my disk?

Sorry, my bad.
it was last October when i looked at that site.
apparently, the patches/bugfixes did not make it into the backports.

Radiola

2009-01-09 02:56:16 UTC

Here's a question. Has anyone purchased one of these units from a
seller on Ebay who claims they WILL NOT CALIBRATE? There are a few
here and there. I wonder if those are safe to buy. All the CALIBRATE
seems to be is a built in antenna tuner. Those are had by many Hams,
including me. :)

Bob Campbell

2009-01-09 03:09:47 UTC

Post by Radiola
Here's a question. Has anyone purchased one of these units from a
seller on Ebay who claims they WILL NOT CALIBRATE? There are a few
here and there. I wonder if those are safe to buy. All the CALIBRATE
seems to be is a built in antenna tuner. Those are had by many Hams,
including me. :)

If you are going to use it with an external antenna connected to the
external antenna connector, then it MIGHT work, as the auto calibrate
mechanism is not used on the external antenna connector. There is a switch
on the back that controls which antenna you use. It is assumed you will
have your own antenna matching coil(s) if you use the external antenna
connector.

I have received 2 units from different eBay sellers that would not
calibrate, when they were advertised as working. One was obviously damaged
in shipment (box was damaged) but the other just did not work. HOWEVER,
neither would transmit after the calibration fails (you get an error message
on the LED display on the front panel). This is probably a built-in safe
guard thing to prevent damage to the output transistors - if calibrate fails
then no signal.

One I returned for a refund, the other I returned for a working unit. If
you get one of these, make sure you can return it if it does not work. Of
course, if you get it for $10 or something then no sweat.

Radiola

2009-01-09 04:34:23 UTC

One I returned for a refund, the other I returned for a working unit. If
you get one of these, make sure you can return it if it does not work. Of
course, if you get it for $10 or something then no sweat.

Thanks for the advice. The seller actually slipped after the same and
then told me it wouldn't calibrate, not mentioned in the initial ad.
No sale for me unless I feel like taking on a project.

This has been the most hideous experience trying to get one of these.
First you're outbid like crazy to the point where your spending almost
$100 for questionable merchandise. Oh well, that's Ebay. I think
I'll build my own AM transmitter like the kit I purchased by SSTRAN.
Same specs, 100mw output, and a few more features for the bucks. All
I want is something that works.

Bob Campbell

2009-01-09 12:49:07 UTC

Post by Radiola
This has been the most hideous experience trying to get one of these.
First you're outbid like crazy to the point where your spending almost
$100 for questionable merchandise. Oh well, that's Ebay.

There is one there now with a $19.99 BIN. He has 8 available. I would
email him NOW and see what model they are.

Post by Radiola
I think I'll build my own AM transmitter like the kit I purchased by
SSTRAN.
Same specs, 100mw output, and a few more features for the bucks. All
I want is something that works.

You have an SSTRAN? I have one also. It sounds great but puts out a weak
signal compared to the TH.

Robert C

2009-01-09 20:48:41 UTC

You have an SSTRAN? I have one also. It sounds great but puts out a
weak signal compared to the TH.

how far can the signal go with one of these units using a wire antenna? i
would like to be able to at least get a usable signal throughout my house.

Bob Campbell

2009-01-09 22:53:25 UTC

You have an SSTRAN? I have one also. It sounds great but puts out a
weak signal compared to the TH.

how far can the signal go with one of these units using a wire antenna? i
would like to be able to at least get a usable signal throughout my house.

The SSTRAN barely covers my house. The transmitter is upstairs. Any
radio downstairs has lots of background static. At night there is
interference from distant stations on the frequency, to the point that it is
unusable at night downstairs.

The TH puts out a solid signal. Also upstairs (all of my transmitters are
upstairs). No static, no background stations at night, covers the entire
yard and a house or 2 down the street.

Both have the same ~10' wire antenna. Its possible my SSTRAN is defective,
since I only have one I have nothing to compare it to. I have several TH
transmitters, they all put out the same strong signal.

Let me put it this way. If I set both the SSTRAN and a TH to the same
frequency, the TH completely overpowers the SSTRAN. You hear *nothing* of
the SSTRAN signal.

Robert C

2009-01-10 00:44:23 UTC

The SSTRAN barely covers my house. The transmitter is upstairs. Any
radio downstairs has lots of background static. At night there is
interference from distant stations on the frequency, to the point that it
is unusable at night downstairs.
The TH puts out a solid signal. Also upstairs (all of my transmitters
are upstairs). No static, no background stations at night, covers the
entire yard and a house or 2 down the street.
Both have the same ~10' wire antenna. Its possible my SSTRAN is
defective, since I only have one I have nothing to compare it to. I have
several TH transmitters, they all put out the same strong signal.
Let me put it this way. If I set both the SSTRAN and a TH to the same
frequency, the TH completely overpowers the SSTRAN. You hear nothing of
the SSTRAN signal.

well, it sounds like the TH is a far better deal then the SSTRAN.
however, i would really like to find are plans to build a tube FM
transmitter utilizing a 6C4. i saw plans for one many years ago, but i
can't seem to find one anywhere on the internet now.

Bob Campbell

2009-01-10 00:52:32 UTC

Post by Robert C
well, it sounds like the TH is a far better deal then the SSTRAN.
however, i would really like to find are plans to build a tube FM
transmitter utilizing a 6C4. i saw plans for one many years ago, but i
can't seem to find one anywhere on the internet now.

The "Lil 7" is a popular one:

http://www.antiqueradio.org/transmitter.htm

This page has a 2 tube transmitter, using a 6C4 and a 6888:

http://www.electronixandmore.com/project/10.html

I have a home brew job that uses a single tube, the 6888. Not much range
but it sounds good.

Brenda Ann

2009-01-10 00:59:57 UTC

http://www.antiqueradio.org/transmitter.htm
http://www.electronixandmore.com/project/10.html
I have a home brew job that uses a single tube, the 6888. Not much range
but it sounds good.

Note he said "FM" transmitter. You can build a very simple FM transmitter
with a 6C4 with next to no parts, just basically a Hartley oscillator with a
high value resistor to feed audio into the grid (reactance modulation).

Bob Campbell

2009-01-10 01:08:13 UTC

Post by Brenda Ann
Note he said "FM" transmitter. You can build a very simple FM transmitter
with a 6C4 with next to no parts, just basically a Hartley oscillator with
a high value resistor to feed audio into the grid (reactance modulation).

Ooops, I *totally* missed the FM part! Sorry.

For FM I use the "Whole House FM Gold" transmitter. I get about 1/4 mile
range just using the supplied 4' antenna.

Brenda Ann

2009-01-10 01:22:02 UTC

Post by Brenda Ann
Note he said "FM" transmitter. You can build a very simple FM transmitter
with a 6C4 with next to no parts, just basically a Hartley oscillator
with a high value resistor to feed audio into the grid (reactance
modulation).

Ooops, I *totally* missed the FM part! Sorry.
For FM I use the "Whole House FM Gold" transmitter. I get about 1/4 mile
range just using the supplied 4' antenna.

For FM, I use a Norsat 6 channel (5 installed) CATV headend modulator. With
a simple 30" wire antenna, I get all 5 channels anywhere in our concrete
with steel reinforcement bunker, and in my steel Faraday cage shop.

If I really want range, I have a 35 watt stereo transmitter stuffed in a
drawer and a 5/8 wave vertical antenna. I choose not to use that one,
though. :)

Robert C

2009-01-10 02:13:06 UTC

For FM I use the "Whole House FM Gold" transmitter. I get about 1/4 mile
range just using the supplied 4' antenna.

that sounds interesting. where would i find it? is it expensive? (i am
cheap) does it come in kit form or pre-assembled"
thanx

Bob Campbell

2009-01-10 02:48:50 UTC

For FM I use the "Whole House FM Gold" transmitter. I get about 1/4 mile
range just using the supplied 4' antenna.

that sounds interesting. where would i find it? is it expensive? (i am
cheap) does it come in kit form or pre-assembled"

I got mine on eBay. I get everything on eBay these days.

It is not a kit. I got mine for around $65 I think. They are *always*
there, and go for anywhere between $60 and $90. They are very small, about
the size of a deck of playing cards - about 3 1/2" x 2 1/2" x 1/2". It
transmits in stereo. The only drawback is it is limited to 7 frequencies:
106.7, 106.9, 107.1, 107.3, 107.5, 107.7 and 107.9. I use mine on 107.9
with great results. There are 3 DIP switches to set the frequency.

The good news is that it comes with everything you need: AC adapter, USB
cable for power from a PC, audio cables, Car 12V lighter plug adapter that
you use with the USB cable. It can even be run by 3 AA batteries.

Search eBay for "whole house fm transmitter", or go to

http://www.wholehousefmtransmitter.com/

to see the details.

The instructions say to mount the 4' wire antenna *vertically*. Doing
that, I couldn't get a good signal even in the same room. The trick is to
mount it horizontally on the wall. This way I get a great signal all over
my house, and up and down the street.

Robert C

2009-01-10 21:50:44 UTC

I got mine on eBay. I get everything on eBay these days.
It is not a kit. I got mine for around $65 I think. They are always
there, and go for anywhere between $60 and $90. They are very small,
about the size of a deck of playing cards - about 3 1/2" x 2 1/2" x 1/2".
It transmits in stereo. The only drawback is it is limited to 7
frequencies: 106.7, 106.9, 107.1, 107.3, 107.5, 107.7 and 107.9. I use
mine on 107.9 with great results. There are 3 DIP switches to set the
frequency.
The good news is that it comes with everything you need: AC adapter, USB
cable for power from a PC, audio cables, Car 12V lighter plug adapter that
you use with the USB cable. It can even be run by 3 AA batteries.
Search eBay for "whole house fm transmitter", or go to
http://www.wholehousefmtransmitter.com/
to see the details.

Thanx, Bob
i bookmarked the site, however i will check ebay to see if i can get it
cheaper.

The instructions say to mount the 4' wire antenna *vertically*. Doing
that, I couldn't get a good signal even in the same room. The trick is
to mount it horizontally on the wall. This way I get a great signal all
over my house, and up and down the street.

thanx for the tip, i will be running the wire horizontally across the
ceiling rafters in my basement.
i wonder what will happen if i added more length to the antenna wire.

Robert C

2009-01-10 02:10:05 UTC

Post by Brenda Ann
Note he said "FM" transmitter.

yup, that is what i said.

Post by Brenda Ann
You can build a very simple FM transmitter
with a 6C4 with next to no parts, just basically a Hartley oscillator with
a high value resistor to feed audio into the grid (reactance modulation).

do you know where i can find a schematic (or plan) to build it?
thanx

Brenda Ann

2009-01-10 02:25:27 UTC

Post by Brenda Ann
Note he said "FM" transmitter.

yup, that is what i said.

do you know where i can find a schematic (or plan) to build it?
thanx

http://books.google.com/books?id=dFkwlYPQfQwC&pg=PA128&lpg=PA128&dq=6C4+fm+transmitter&source=web&ots=2QtNWIjZPb&sig=X9nvU4e8NOiI3MtsvzDnvAr75Bg&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result#PPA130,M1

Robert C

2009-01-11 01:02:44 UTC

Brenda Ann wrote:
http://books.google.com/books?id=dFkwlYPQfQwC&pg=PA128&lpg=PA128&dq=6C4+fm+transmitter&source=web&ots=2QtNWIjZPb&sig=X9nvU4e8NOiI3MtsvzDnvAr75Bg&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result#PPA130,M1

thanx

John Byrns

2009-01-14 21:27:49 UTC

The SSTRAN barely covers my house. The transmitter is upstairs. Any
radio downstairs has lots of background static. At night there is
interference from distant stations on the frequency, to the point that it
is unusable at night downstairs.
The TH puts out a solid signal. Also upstairs (all of my transmitters
are upstairs). No static, no background stations at night, covers the
entire yard and a house or 2 down the street.
Both have the same ~10' wire antenna. Its possible my SSTRAN is
defective, since I only have one I have nothing to compare it to. I have
several TH transmitters, they all put out the same strong signal.
Let me put it this way. If I set both the SSTRAN and a TH to the same
frequency, the TH completely overpowers the SSTRAN. You hear nothing of
the SSTRAN signal.

Are you looking for an FM transmitter using a single 6C4, or using a 6C4 along
with other tubes? E.H.Scott had a nice design for an FM transmitter built on a
chrome chassis, whose purpose was to allow their dealers, in towns that didn't
yet have FM stations, to demonstrate their new FM radios. There was an article
published in electronics magazine about 1941, at least that's where I think it
was, that completely described the circuit, which IIRC used somewhere around 6
tubes. I think the circuit was very similar to the old Jerrold tube based CATV
head end FM modulator I have. This uses a 10.7 MHz oscillator modulated by a
reactance tube. This is beat against an overtone crystal oscillator in a mixer
to take the frequency up to the FM broadcast band for feeding the cable. The
modulated 10.7 MHz oscillator also drives a Foster Seeley discriminator that
provides an AFC voltage to the reactance tube modulator to help stabilize the
center frequency of the modulated oscillator.

I wonder if any of the E.H.Scott collectors have one of these E.H.Scott FM
transmitters in their collections?

--
Regards,

John Byrns

Surf my web pages at, http://fmamradios.com/

Robert C

2009-01-15 01:12:38 UTC

Post by John Byrns
Are you looking for an FM transmitter using a single 6C4,

yes, i was, but what you described below sounds even more appealing.

Post by John Byrns
or using a 6C4
along with other tubes? E.H.Scott had a nice design for an FM transmitter
built on a chrome chassis, whose purpose was to allow their dealers, in
towns that didn't yet have FM stations, to demonstrate their new FM
radios. There was an article published in electronics magazine about
1941, at least that's where I think it was, that completely described the
circuit, which IIRC used somewhere around 6 tubes. I think the circuit
was very similar to the old Jerrold tube based CATV head end FM modulator
I have. This uses a 10.7 MHz oscillator modulated by a reactance tube.
This is beat against an overtone crystal oscillator in a mixer to take the
frequency up to the FM broadcast band for feeding the cable. The
modulated 10.7 MHz oscillator also drives a Foster Seeley discriminator
that provides an AFC voltage to the reactance tube modulator to help
stabilize the center frequency of the modulated oscillator.

if you can find a Jerrold unit like the one you have, i sure would be
interested.

Post by John Byrns
I wonder if any of the E.H.Scott collectors have one of these E.H.Scott FM
transmitters in their collections?

i guess that if they did, they would not part with them.

Radiola

2009-01-10 01:57:56 UTC

There is one there now with a $19.99 BIN. He has 8 available. I would
email him NOW and see what model they are.

It's another NON CALIBRATOR, sorry.

Bob Campbell

2009-01-10 02:32:11 UTC

Post by Radiola
It's another NON CALIBRATOR, sorry.

Ah, that is why it is so cheap. I see that in the listing now.

I would pass on that one also.

Garry W Tidler

2009-01-19 22:32:29 UTC

I bought one. It was a easy fix.
The top was dented in and was keeping the antnna tuner from working.
Also the antenna which is a 3 meter wire was pushed to too far in to the
spring loaded connector.
The connecter was cosed on the insulater on the wire.
Reposition and it worked OK.
Took about a week to ship to Indiana.
I have nothing to compare it to but I am satisfied with it.
The patent has a lot of information.

Click here > http://www.google.com/patents?id=OFUIAAAAEBAJ&dq=6295443
< Click here

Garry WW9GT

Radiola

2009-01-20 01:15:55 UTC

Post by Garry W Tidler

I bought one. It was a easy fix.
The top was dented in and was keeping the antnna tuner from working.
Also the antenna which is a 3 meter wire was pushed to too far in to the
spring loaded connector.
The connecter was cosed on the insulater on the wire.
Reposition and it worked OK.
Took about a week to ship to Indiana.
I have nothing to compare it to but I am satisfied with it.
The patent has a lot of information.
Click here > http://www.google.com/patents?id=OFUIAAAAEBAJ&dq=6295443
< Click here
Garry WW9GT

Garry,

Thanks for the input. This makes sense as calibration has to do with
the auto antenna tuner tuning the antenna before it transmits at all.
I did purchase an extra one that has calibration issues, and will
check this out when it comes to me. Also purchased one working unit
as well.

I haven't heard any comment about using the aux input of the unit for
retransmitting another audio source. Has anyone tried this and what's
the quality like?

Bob Campbell

2009-01-20 12:08:21 UTC

Post by Radiola
Thanks for the input. This makes sense as calibration has to do with
the auto antenna tuner tuning the antenna before it transmits at all.
I did purchase an extra one that has calibration issues, and will
check this out when it comes to me. Also purchased one working unit
as well.

He got lucky, it was just a simple mechanical fix. The 2 I had that would
not calibrate had no easy fix.

Post by Radiola
I haven't heard any comment about using the aux input of the unit for
retransmitting another audio source. Has anyone tried this and what's
the quality like?

That's the only reason to get one IMO. I have 6 Model 5.0 THs that sound
great, nearly as good as my SSTRAN. I also have a Model 4.6 that is OK,
but not as good as the model 5.0. I have a Model 4 that is terrible, it is
unusable.

These things appear to have terrible quality control as far as the AUX input
is concerned, since that has always been of secondary importance compared to
the built-in 5 minute chip. But the 5.0 models seem to be much better. I
got a 5 pack on eBay (consecutive serial numbers) of 5.0 models and they ALL
sound great.

I currently have 2 running 24/7 housecasting various OTR and music.

NotMe

2009-01-20 13:08:41 UTC

Can someone put a copy of the instructions on alt.binaries.pictures.radio,
please. I purchased one and it did not come with the instructions.

Also, does anyone know what the power source requirements are? The power
supply that came with the one I have seems to be putting out a hum, so I'd
like to use another power supply.

Thanks!

Garry W Tidler

2009-01-20 15:31:50 UTC

Post by NotMe
Can someone put a copy of the instructions on alt.binaries.pictures.radio,
please. I purchased one and it did not come with the instructions.

Click here>
http://www.talkinghouse.com/realtors/newsletters/2004/pdf/pdf_print_options_manual.htm

Garry

WW9GT

Bob Campbell

2009-01-21 13:20:07 UTC

Post by NotMe
Also, does anyone know what the power source requirements are? The power
supply that came with the one I have seems to be putting out a hum, so I'd
like to use another power supply.

I was getting a hum from one of mine. Go to Radio Shack and get a Ground
Loop Isolator cable. Completely eliminated my hum problem.

John Byrns

2009-01-21 16:04:51 UTC

Post by NotMe
Also, does anyone know what the power source requirements are? The power
supply that came with the one I have seems to be putting out a hum, so I'd
like to use another power supply.

I was getting a hum from one of mine. Go to Radio Shack and get a Ground
Loop Isolator cable. Completely eliminated my hum problem.

Can anyone explain to me what a "Ground Loop Isolator cable" is? The
ones I am familiar with ate for Television sets and wouldn't seem
applicable in this application? Where did you connect the "Ground Loop
Isolator cable"?

--
Regards,

John Byrns

Surf my web pages at, http://fmamradios.com/

Bob Campbell

2009-01-21 17:50:17 UTC

Post by John Byrns
Can anyone explain to me what a "Ground Loop Isolator cable" is? The
ones I am familiar with ate for Television sets and wouldn't seem
applicable in this application? Where did you connect the "Ground Loop
Isolator cable"?

This one is like an audio patch cable (stereo red/white RCA connectors on
each end) but has a oval can at one end. I guess it has some sort of
isolation transformer in the can, so there is no direct connection between
the 2 devices. It works, loud annoying hum is gone.

You just use this for your audio source connection, using whatever adapter
cables you need. In my case, I am going from the stereo headphone out of a
laptop, thru a 1/8" male to 2 rca female adapter, thru the Ground Isolator
cable, then thru another 2 rca female to 1/8" male adapter to plug into the
transmitter input.

Radio Shack has all of this. eBay has them also. They look like this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Metra-GL15-Ground-Loop-Isolator_W0QQitemZ350141429014QQihZ022QQcategoryZ32809QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Jeffrey D Angus

2009-01-21 18:01:36 UTC

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062214

It's an audio patch cable with an isolation transformer in it
to isolate the input from the output.

I learned the hard way that this is absolutely necessary if you
use a computer sound card as a audio source with equipment being
tested on the bench. The sound card does awful things when it
gets hit with a B+ spike through a charged capacitor.

Jeff

John Byrns

2009-01-21 21:02:27 UTC

Post by Jeffrey D Angus

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062214
It's an audio patch cable with an isolation transformer in it
to isolate the input from the output.

Interesting, there must be two transformers in there since it's stereo,
I wonder what quality, read bass response, transformers you can put in
that small space at that price?

--
Regards,

John Byrns

Surf my web pages at, http://fmamradios.com/

Radiola

2009-01-20 13:32:15 UTC

He got lucky, it was just a simple mechanical fix. The 2 I had that would
not calibrate had no easy fix.

Post by Radiola
I haven't heard any comment about using the aux input of the unit for
retransmitting another audio source. Has anyone tried this and what's
the quality like?

That's the only reason to get one IMO. I have 6 Model 5.0 THs that sound
great, nearly as good as my SSTRAN. I also have a Model 4.6 that is OK,
but not as good as the model 5.0. I have a Model 4 that is terrible, it is
unusable.
These things appear to have terrible quality control as far as the AUX input
is concerned, since that has always been of secondary importance compared to
the built-in 5 minute chip. But the 5.0 models seem to be much better. I
got a 5 pack on eBay (consecutive serial numbers) of 5.0 models and they ALL
sound great.
I currently have 2 running 24/7 housecasting various OTR and music.

This is sort of what I figured, a mechanical problems versus an
electronic problem, something which I will be dealing with
undoubtedly. I believe my models are the later of the two as well.
Thanks for your input. GB

Neon John

2009-01-20 15:09:11 UTC

Post by Bob Campbell
These things appear to have terrible quality control as far as the AUX input
is concerned, since that has always been of secondary importance compared to
the built-in 5 minute chip. But the 5.0 models seem to be much better. I
got a 5 pack on eBay (consecutive serial numbers) of 5.0 models and they ALL
sound great.

Bob,

Would you (or anyone else) consider selling me one of those? I don't
do sleazebay or paypal so I can't buy one directly. Contact me off
list please. Address is jgd @ neon-john.com or just go to my website
and click "mail john"

thanks
John

Brenda Ann

2009-01-21 10:43:46 UTC

I bought two from the seller wuvmydolphins that the seller clearly stated in
the auction that they would not calibrate. I must say that I was happy to
find when I hooked them up, with the supplied wire antenna fully (more or
less) extended (even inside our concrete bunker) that the transmitters not
only calibrated, but actually do a pretty nice job across the band. These
are both Model TH-II, and have both an aux in (apparently for recording
only) and a Direct in, which switches the player out of the circuit. It's a
pretty high level input, though (1V P-P) so I have to have something pretty
loud to feed it with.. my little Panasonic CD portable player doesn't come
close to driving it (about 5-10% modulation depth). When fed with a quality
signal, it seems to sound very nice indeed.. even has a good bandwidth and
there's good high end on a radio capable of 'hearing' it.

Bob,

Don't know how these compare to your 5.0 models.. perhaps you can give me
some additional insight on them?

Bob Campbell

2009-01-21 12:42:05 UTC

When fed with a quality signal, it seems to sound very nice indeed.. even
has a good bandwidth and there's good high end on a radio capable of
'hearing' it.
Don't know how these compare to your 5.0 models.. perhaps you can give me
some additional insight on them?

Probably the same. Mine sound very good indeed. The newer models have a
clearly marked "Line Input" and a "Mic Input". There is also a switch on
the back for broadcasting "live" or using the built-in recorded message. I
understand the older models don't have this switch, but automatically go
"live" when you connect a source.

Like I said earlier, historically these have had widely varying sound
quality via the AUX input for "live" broadcasting. If you got a good one
it sounded great. If not they sound *terrible*. I have a 4.6 model that
sounds good, but I also have a 4.0 model that sounds terrible. Many owners
report that theirs sound bad also.

My opinion (and this is only my opinion, I have no facts to base this on,
just my observations) is that the 5.0 models just have better quality
control in that they are finally testing the Line Input jack and making
whatever adjustments that exist to get good sound. I have 6 of the 5.0
models and they *all* sound great. I can't believe it was just the "luck
of the draw".

Anyways, congratulations on getting 2 good ones. They are easy to use and
put out a great signal. Better signal than the SSTRAN.

FWIW, there is a NIB 5.0 model on eBay right now with a BIN of $39! Plus
more from wuvmydolphins that he says don't calibrate, for BIN $19.99. With
the U.S. real estate market in the toilet, these things are getting cheap
and plentiful. I bought my 5 pack (consecutive serial numbers) of 5.0
models a couple of months ago for $160 including shipping. That's $32
each, shipped! $160 is what a single, assembled SSTRAN costs.

Syl

2009-01-21 14:11:12 UTC

Post by Bob Campbell
Like I said earlier, historically these have had widely varying sound
quality via the AUX input for "live" broadcasting. If you got a good
one it sounded great. If not they sound *terrible*.

Bob,

could you be more specific about the "terrible" sound?

Is it distorting, overdriven, muffled? In the latter case, it may only
be a matter or removing a cap or two. In my case, as I have an older
unit using a cassette tape, I had to remove a small cap which limited
the frequency response of the tape. Then I simply adapted the
gain and EQ for an external AUX input. The cap was just at the output
of the audio IC before the modulator.

Syl

Bob Campbell

2009-01-21 17:56:16 UTC

Post by Syl
could you be more specific about the "terrible" sound?
Is it distorting, overdriven, muffled?

Yes, all of the above. Plus, it seems like the AGC is overly aggressive.
The modulation constantly goes up and down.

The problem is there are no schematics available. Its possible it *could*
be fixed, I am just not interested in trying since I have so many good ones
now. :-)

Radiola

2009-01-22 02:22:31 UTC

Post by Brenda Ann

Hi Brenda,

I also bought one of these units from wuv after I bought another one
from someone else. I figured it would be a project, but doesn't sound
like it so far, more like the seller just didn't know how to plug and
play the item. I guess it makes sense. Why would anyone have so many
units that don't calibrate? Still waiting on mine to show up at my
doorstep.

Cheers,

GB

Radiola

2009-01-23 03:13:29 UTC

Post by Brenda Ann

Hi Brenda,
I also bought one of these units from wuv after I bought another one
from someone else. I figured it would be a project, but doesn't sound
like it so far, more like the seller just didn't know how to plug and
play the item. I guess it makes sense. Why would anyone have so many
units that don't calibrate? Still waiting on mine to show up at my
doorstep.
Cheers,
GB

It's a project, it doesn't work. :<<

Brenda Ann

2009-01-23 03:41:03 UTC

Post by Radiola
I also bought one of these units from wuv after I bought another one
from someone else. I figured it would be a project, but doesn't sound
like it so far, more like the seller just didn't know how to plug and
play the item. I guess it makes sense. Why would anyone have so many
units that don't calibrate? Still waiting on mine to show up at my
doorstep.
Cheers,
GB

It's a project, it doesn't work. :<<

That's too bad. What seems to be it's problem? I got my two, both working,
but only one working wall wart between them. I haven't measured it yet, but
I kind of suspect they are AC supplies, given that the transmitters
themselves seem to have all rectification/regulation inside. They're likely
using the ground on the wall wart as the counterpoise for the antenna.

Radiola

2009-01-23 06:32:42 UTC

It's a project, it doesn't work. :<<
That's too bad. What seems to be it's problem? I got my two, both working,
but only one working wall wart between them. I haven't measured it yet, but
I kind of suspect they are AC supplies, given that the transmitters
themselves seem to have all rectification/regulation inside. They're likely
using the ground on the wall wart as the counterpoise for the antenna.

Hi B. The problem is once powered on (no power switch on the unit, is
there?) it's goes into CAL mode, you hear the little motor churning
away to do the tuning of the antenna, but it never seems to stop.
Gave it a reasonable time to CAL (like five min or less) but doesn't
stop and tune the antenna. I've stretched the antenna out, but I'm
thinking that maybe it's the issue by how I took the end and twisted
it onto a door cabinet. Is it that critical? How did you do yours?

GB.

Brenda Ann

2009-01-23 07:43:35 UTC

"Radiola" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:0f67d066-23e0-4523-b50d-***@z27g2000prd.googlegroups.com...

Hi B. The problem is once powered on (no power switch on the unit, is
there?) it's goes into CAL mode, you hear the little motor churning
away to do the tuning of the antenna, but it never seems to stop.
Gave it a reasonable time to CAL (like five min or less) but doesn't
stop and tune the antenna. I've stretched the antenna out, but I'm
thinking that maybe it's the issue by how I took the end and twisted
it onto a door cabinet. Is it that critical? How did you do yours?

They are particular about antenna placement to a large degree. You don't
want either end of the antenna near anything conductive, metal is evil. They
like it best when the antenna is fully stretched out and not close to walls
or windows. Stretched out on a wood floor would be usable, but not ideal.
Also, make sure your antenna is fully plugged into the connector and making
proper connection. I have found that the quasi Fahnstock clip connector is a
bit iffy.

Bob Campbell

2009-01-23 11:39:00 UTC

Post by Brenda Ann
That's too bad. What seems to be it's problem? I got my two, both
working, but only one working wall wart between them. I haven't measured
it yet, but I kind of suspect they are AC supplies, given that the
transmitters themselves seem to have all rectification/regulation inside.
They're likely using the ground on the wall wart as the counterpoise for
the antenna.

The TH power supply is 18 VDC. The newer models have this written just
below the power input connector on the back. Dunno if your does or not.

Brenda Ann

2009-01-23 12:17:49 UTC

The TH power supply is 18 VDC. The newer models have this written just
below the power input connector on the back. Dunno if your does or not.

Thanks. I discovered that tonight when I got the last of the transmitters I
purchased, this one a brand new model 5.0. I like this one, as it has a
single Aux input with AGC that actually works with my Panasonic CD player.

Bob Campbell

2009-01-23 12:23:30 UTC

Post by Brenda Ann
Thanks. I discovered that tonight when I got the last of the transmitters
I purchased, this one a brand new model 5.0. I like this one, as it has a
single Aux input with AGC that actually works with my Panasonic CD player.

So how does the 5.0 model compare to your earlier models regarding sound
quality?

Brenda Ann

2009-01-23 12:43:46 UTC

Post by Brenda Ann
Thanks. I discovered that tonight when I got the last of the
transmitters I purchased, this one a brand new model 5.0. I like this
one, as it has a single Aux input with AGC that actually works with my
Panasonic CD player.

So how does the 5.0 model compare to your earlier models regarding sound
quality?

The sound quality seems good on all three, but I like the fact that the
input level is much closer to standard on the Model 5.

John Byrns

2009-01-23 18:55:48 UTC

It's a project, it doesn't work. :<<
That's too bad. What seems to be it's problem? I got my two, both working,
but only one working wall wart between them. I haven't measured it yet, but
I kind of suspect they are AC supplies, given that the transmitters
themselves seem to have all rectification/regulation inside. They're likely
using the ground on the wall wart as the counterpoise for the antenna.

Speaking of antennas for the Talking House transmitter, I see from the
instruction manual that there is a coaxial output connector to connect a
transmission line to an outside antenna and tuning unit. I wonder what
the FCC thinks of that feature which would seem to violate the FCC
regulations? Perhaps part of the answer is that I couldn't find any
actual instructions for the outside antenna in the manual, I may have
read too fast though. The patent does describe a tuning unit for an
external antenna though, complete with a meter for tuning, no
computerized tuning in that mode.

--
Regards,

John Byrns

Surf my web pages at, http://fmamradios.com/

Mike

2009-01-24 22:27:29 UTC

It's a project, it doesn't work. :<<
That's too bad. What seems to be it's problem? I got my two, both working,
but only one working wall wart between them. I haven't measured it yet, but
I kind of suspect they are AC supplies, given that the transmitters
themselves seem to have all rectification/regulation inside. They're likely
using the ground on the wall wart as the counterpoise for the antenna.

The manual for the outside antenna and others can be found here:
http://www2.360oregon.com/talkinghouse/operations/

John Byrns

2009-01-24 23:10:47 UTC

It's a project, it doesn't work. :<<
That's too bad. What seems to be it's problem? I got my two, both working,
but only one working wall wart between them. I haven't measured it yet, but
I kind of suspect they are AC supplies, given that the transmitters
themselves seem to have all rectification/regulation inside. They're likely
using the ground on the wall wart as the counterpoise for the antenna.

http://www2.360oregon.com/talkinghouse/operations/

Neat, that ATU would make a neat accessory! Has anyone seen one for
sale on eBay? It should also work with a slightly modified SSTRAN
AMT3000, to get the antenna outside and considerably improve performance.

--
Regards,

John Byrns

Surf my web pages at, http://fmamradios.com/

Bill M

2009-01-25 00:20:59 UTC

Post by John Byrns
Neat, that ATU would make a neat accessory! Has anyone seen one for
sale on eBay? It should also work with a slightly modified SSTRAN
AMT3000, to get the antenna outside and considerably improve performance.

That is quite neat. I think we've all heard somewhere that the "antenna
length" is construed to include feedline and this configuration
contradicts that. I can only assume that its totally legal in the eyes
of the feds.

SSTran has an outdoor antenna but its based on the xmtr being mounted
outdoors adjacent to the feedpoint.

Now I really wondering EXACTLY what the FCC requirement is? Is there
any access to the documentation that might shed further light on the
Talkinghouse configuration?

Or...it just dawned on me...is there simply an additional final RF Amp
stage in the "ATU" with its RF drive and DC operating voltage coming
from the main unit? Aha, bet thats it.

-Bill

Radiola

2009-01-25 01:24:41 UTC

That is quite neat. I think we've all heard somewhere that the "antenna
length" is construed to include feedline and this configuration
contradicts that. I can only assume that its totally legal in the eyes
of the feds.
SSTran has an outdoor antenna but its based on the xmtr being mounted
outdoors adjacent to the feedpoint.
Now I really wondering EXACTLY what the FCC requirement is? Is there
any access to the documentation that might shed further light on the
Talkinghouse configuration?
Or...it just dawned on me...is there simply an additional final RF Amp
stage in the "ATU" with its RF drive and DC operating voltage coming
from the main unit? Aha, bet thats it.
-Bill

What is the ATU on the Talking House transmitter? Is this just an
external antenna outlet, or is it something the manufacturer has
dreamed up to sell you?

G

Brenda Ann

2009-01-25 01:27:21 UTC

Post by Bill M

Neat, that ATU would make a neat accessory! Has anyone seen one for sale
on eBay? It should also work with a slightly modified SSTRAN AMT3000, to
get the antenna outside and considerably improve performance.

That is quite neat. I think we've all heard somewhere that the "antenna
length" is construed to include feedline and this configuration
contradicts that. I can only assume that its totally legal in the eyes of
the feds.
SSTran has an outdoor antenna but its based on the xmtr being mounted
outdoors adjacent to the feedpoint.
Now I really wondering EXACTLY what the FCC requirement is? Is there any
access to the documentation that might shed further light on the
Talkinghouse configuration?
Or...it just dawned on me...is there simply an additional final RF Amp
stage in the "ATU" with its RF drive and DC operating voltage coming from
the main unit? Aha, bet thats it.
-Bill

I note that the thing is called an "Auxilliary Transmitting Unit". This gets
me to thinking that the connector on the back of the main unit may be either
audio only or perhaps the raw output from the modulated source, which is
then amplified to the legal limit with the ATU unit. Either of these would
make it conform with the Part 15 rules.

John Goller, k9uwa /W4 Snowbird

2009-01-25 13:53:15 UTC

Post by Bill M
Or...it just dawned on me...is there simply an additional final RF Amp
stage in the "ATU" with its RF drive and DC operating voltage coming
from the main unit? Aha, bet thats it.
-Bill

Yup a 100 Milli Watt ... Leeanier ... Dc powered over the coax... inside
transmitter flip switch to outside antenna.. disables the internal final
stage and feeds itty bitty RF to the coax out line.

I wonder what is inside that 6 foot fiberglass whip that comes with the
external ATU/Amp ? ... Helical Wound continuous perhaps?

Those ATU units could be neat for lots of projects...

John k9uwa/w4

Radiola

2009-01-25 14:58:23 UTC

Yup a 100 Milli Watt ... Leeanier ... Dc powered over the coax... inside
transmitter flip switch to outside antenna.. disables the internal final
stage and feeds itty bitty RF to the coax out line.
I wonder what is inside that 6 foot fiberglass whip that comes with the
external ATU/Amp ? ... Helical Wound continuous perhaps?
Those ATU units could be neat for lots of projects...
John k9uwa/w4

So now the question remains, is there a manual way to tune this thing
into perhaps your own antenna and tuning device? This to avoid issues
with the CAL function not working, aka the internal antenna tuner not
doing it's thing? I thought there was some discussion on this and/or
actual success stories out there somewhere. Thanks for reading, GB

John Byrns

2009-01-26 14:20:04 UTC

Post by Bill M
Or...it just dawned on me...is there simply an additional final RF Amp
stage in the "ATU" with its RF drive and DC operating voltage coming
from the main unit? Aha, bet thats it.

Yup a 100 Milli Watt ... Leeanier ... Dc powered over the coax... inside
transmitter flip switch to outside antenna.. disables the internal final
stage and feeds itty bitty RF to the coax out line.

I assume you know this from having opened one up? A "Leeanier" in the
ATU doesn't make sense to me, I would think it would be simpler, better
and cheaper to simply put a modulated final stage in the "ATU" and feed
the modulated DC over the coax along with the "itty bitty RF". Are you
sure the RF final stage you found in the ATU was a "Leeanier" and not a
modulated RF amplifier stage?

--
Regards,

John Byrns

Surf my web pages at, http://fmamradios.com/

John Goller, k9uwa /W4 Snowbird

2009-01-27 03:57:56 UTC

Post by Bill M
Or...it just dawned on me...is there simply an additional final RF Amp
stage in the "ATU" with its RF drive and DC operating voltage coming
from the main unit? Aha, bet thats it.

Yup a 100 Milli Watt ... Leeanier ... Dc powered over the coax... inside
transmitter flip switch to outside antenna.. disables the internal final
stage and feeds itty bitty RF to the coax out line.

I guess John that you can call it whatever you want to call it... but to
comply with the FCC rules. the antenna can only be xxxx feet long and that
includes the Feedline. So therefore to make this thing legal with FCC the
Amp... Final Stage ... has to be .. at the base of the antenna... if it were
in the transmitter box then the feedline alone would make it illegal.

John k9uwa/w4

Michael A. Terrell

2009-01-27 08:10:21 UTC

Post by John Goller, k9uwa /W4 Snowbird
I guess John that you can call it whatever you want to call it... but to
comply with the FCC rules. the antenna can only be xxxx feet long and that
includes the Feedline. So therefore to make this thing legal with FCC the
Amp... Final Stage ... has to be .. at the base of the antenna... if it were
in the transmitter box then the feedline alone would make it illegal.
John k9uwa/w4

I thought the website called it an "Auxiliary Transmitter Unit', or
in other words it was just the transmitter section without the digital
audio recorder or any other controls.
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John Goller, k9uwa /W4 Snowbird

2009-01-27 13:35:53 UTC

Post by Michael A. Terrell

I thought the website called it an "Auxiliary Transmitter Unit', or
in other words it was just the transmitter section without the digital
audio recorder or any other controls.

And upon further reading where it explained how to hook ATU up to the Main
Unit. It Said... #1 flip switch in transmitter to send signal to the coax
fitting.... what it didn't say there was.... keep in mind your talking to a
bunch of Realtors... what it didn't say was... flip this switch it turns off
the amp in the transmitter... sends the RF signal and DC for power down this
coax line....

then again what it does say is... after fire up there is a above or below 1mhz
and two knobs to tweak on the ATU unit to match the amp to the antenna....

sure sounds a lot like a Leeenier to me...

John k9uwa/w4

John Byrns

2009-01-27 17:22:48 UTC

Post by Michael A. Terrell

were

Post by Michael A. Terrell

Post by John Goller, k9uwa /W4 Snowbird
in the transmitter box then the feedline alone would make it illegal.

I thought the website called it an "Auxiliary Transmitter Unit', or
in other words it was just the transmitter section without the digital
audio recorder or any other controls.

And upon further reading where it explained how to hook ATU up to the Main
Unit. It Said... #1 flip switch in transmitter to send signal to the coax
fitting.... what it didn't say there was.... keep in mind your talking to a
bunch of Realtors... what it didn't say was... flip this switch it turns off
the amp in the transmitter... sends the RF signal and DC for power down this
coax line....
then again what it does say is... after fire up there is a above or below 1mhz
and two knobs to tweak on the ATU unit to match the amp to the antenna....

There is a nice picture of the Talking House "ATU" here:

Loading Image...

Post by John Goller, k9uwa /W4 Snowbird
sure sounds a lot like a Leeenier to me...

It sounds more like an ordinary passive ATU, or Antenna Tuning Unit, to
me, probably using a circuit very similar to the ATU circuit shown in
the patent.

If you doubt this consider the following two quotes from this site:

http://part15.us

First:

"I've been using a Talking House for about a year. I checked it's output
on a Motorola Station monitor and the output from the "external antenna
tuner" jack was almost 100 milliwatts. The modulation runs up to about
98% and then hard limits."

And secondly:

"I haven't taken the ATU apart to see what's actually inside but my
guess is only a tuning network in addition to the "peaking" meter. I
based that on the fact that no DC voltage appears on the coax from the
transmitter which would be neccessary if there were an amplifier/final
rf stage in there. Also, the ATU has a "tuning" knob and two position
"high-low" frequency selector switch for above or below 1 mHz operation."

If the information in these two quotes is accurate they strongly suggest
that the Talking House ATU is a simple passive device as shown in the
patent.

On the other hand if the ATU were an active device as you suggest, it
seems unlikely that it would be a "Leeenier" for several reasons. First
a "Leeenier" would be slightly more complex than a modulated class C RF
amplifier stage, and would be more critical in adjustment and operation.
Secondly, given the FCC 100 mW DC input limit to the final stage, a
modulated class C stage would provide more power output to the antenna
than a "Leeenier" could resulting in greater range.

The discussion on the "part15.us" web page speculates that the passive
ATU and transmission line approach may be allowed under the part 15
rules when it is part of a system that is designed, manufactured, and
approved as a system. I am about to spend some time with the CFR to see
if this is a reasonable interpretation of what part 15 says.

John

--
Regards,

John Byrns

Surf my web pages at, http://fmamradios.com/

Bill M

2009-01-27 17:38:13 UTC

Post by John Byrns
The discussion on the "part15.us" web page speculates that the passive
ATU and transmission line approach may be allowed under the part 15
rules when it is part of a system that is designed, manufactured, and
approved as a system. I am about to spend some time with the CFR to see
if this is a reasonable interpretation of what part 15 says.
John

This supposedly is the patent on the device. I'm presently plowing
through the obtuse wording.

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6973294.html

Bill M

2009-01-27 17:52:41 UTC

Post by Bill M

Post by John Byrns
The discussion on the "part15.us" web page speculates that the passive
ATU and transmission line approach may be allowed under the part 15
rules when it is part of a system that is designed, manufactured, and
approved as a system. I am about to spend some time with the CFR to
see if this is a reasonable interpretation of what part 15 says.
John

This supposedly is the patent on the device. I'm presently plowing
through the obtuse wording.
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6973294.html

Well, looks like we were guessing wrong. There's a schematic on the pdf
version at that site and there's no rf amp stage. What you say above,
John, seems to be their logic for its legality. I'm surprised that it
holds water.

-Bill

John Byrns

2009-01-26 14:29:57 UTC

Post by Bill M

That is quite neat. I think we've all heard somewhere that the "antenna
length" is construed to include feedline and this configuration
contradicts that. I can only assume that its totally legal in the eyes
of the feds.
SSTran has an outdoor antenna but its based on the xmtr being mounted
outdoors adjacent to the feedpoint.
Now I really wondering EXACTLY what the FCC requirement is? Is there
any access to the documentation that might shed further light on the
Talkinghouse configuration?

I get the impression that it is not the actual regulations that are
important, but that what counts is the interpretations/wavers that one
might get from the FCC.

Post by Bill M
Or...it just dawned on me...is there simply an additional final RF Amp
stage in the "ATU" with its RF drive and DC operating voltage coming
from the main unit? Aha, bet thats it.

That idea had also occurred to me, but I would want to see what is
actually inside the "ATU" before I believe it. The "ATU" as described
in the Talking House instructions is surprisingly similar in external
design and features to what you would expect the passive "ATU" shown in
the Talking House patent to be like.

--
Regards,

John Byrns

Surf my web pages at, http://fmamradios.com/

J. B. Wood

2009-01-09 11:36:03 UTC

Post by Tim Mullen

Post by Syl
Notice I said use with discernment. google isn't the answer for
everything and the answers you get may not be what you're looking for...;o)

http://www.nongnu.org/streamtuner/
It's the google of streaming radio. Just do a search on "old time radio"
and a ton of stations pop up. You can then go clickety-click-click down
the line, hopping from one to the other just like a radio tuner.
http://www.gothicdigital.com/misc/otr.jpg

Post by Syl
I like live365.com Tons of interesting stations.

I backend my streamtuner with streamripper, which decodes streams
into individual, properly named mp3 files. Live365 sued the guy who
wrote streamripper, so I stick with Shoutcast & Xiph.

Hello, and it's hard to beat the old-time radio offerings by the
"broadcasters" on live365.com IMHO. My personal fav is the mix of old
comedy shows (Jack Benny, Fibber McGee & Molly, Burns & Allen, Our Miss
Brooks, etc) on "Golden Age OTR" provided by ham-radio operator N1DK.
N1DK tries to match the current month (and sometimes day) to that when
these shows were aired. Now all we need to do is pipe the audio to a
Philco Cathedral ;-). Sincerely,

John Wood (Code 5550) e-mail: ***@itd.nrl.navy.mil
Naval Research Laboratory
4555 Overlook Avenue, SW
Washington, DC 20375-5337

Bob Campbell

2009-01-03 16:38:45 UTC

What is "the 1920's Radio Network"? Also "AM 1710 Antioch"?

These are great stations that can be found in iTunes. Each also has their
web site where you can stream from. In iTunes. 1920's Radio is found in
Radio, Eclectic near the bottom, "The 1920's Radio Network". This has
continuous music from the 20s thru the mid 50s. On Saturday and Sunday
nights at 9PM Eastern, they run about 4 hours of OTR comedies, like Jack
Benny, Amos and Andy, Our Miss Brooks, etc.

AM 1710 Antioch is in Radio, Talk/Spoken Word near the top "AM 1710
Antioch". This is continuous OTR every half hour, with music in between
OTR programs. They also tend to schedule shows on "this date in history",
so everything you hear today was broadcast on January 3rd in whatever year
in the past. So I just heard all of the Christmas and New Years shows in
the last couple of weeks. They run comedies, drama, thrillers, sci fi,
etc. The schedule is at

http://radio.macinmind.com/

The 1920s Network is at

http://www.the1920snetwork.com/index.html

John Byrns

2009-01-03 20:50:07 UTC

What is "the 1920's Radio Network"? Also "AM 1710 Antioch"?

These are great stations that can be found in iTunes. Each also has their
web site where you can stream from. In iTunes. 1920's Radio is found in
Radio, Eclectic near the bottom, "The 1920's Radio Network". This has
continuous music from the 20s thru the mid 50s. On Saturday and Sunday
nights at 9PM Eastern, they run about 4 hours of OTR comedies, like Jack
Benny, Amos and Andy, Our Miss Brooks, etc.
AM 1710 Antioch is in Radio, Talk/Spoken Word near the top "AM 1710
Antioch". This is continuous OTR every half hour, with music in between
OTR programs. They also tend to schedule shows on "this date in history",
so everything you hear today was broadcast on January 3rd in whatever year
in the past. So I just heard all of the Christmas and New Years shows in
the last couple of weeks. They run comedies, drama, thrillers, sci fi,
etc. The schedule is at
http://radio.macinmind.com/
The 1920s Network is at
http://www.the1920snetwork.com/index.html

Thanks Bob, I found both of them on iTunes, the "the1920snetwork" is now playing
on my laptop as I type this.

--
Regards,

John Byrns

Surf my web pages at, http://fmamradios.com/

Jeffrey D Angus

2009-01-04 03:10:11 UTC

Post by John Byrns
Thanks Bob, I found both of them on iTunes, the "the1920snetwork" is now playing
on my laptop as I type this.

I have that streaming both at the shop here, and at the virtual shop on
Second Life.

Jeff

Radiola

2009-01-03 17:15:16 UTC

What's the power output on these transmitters? What type of antenna
is supplied with these units? I could imagine it's one of those stick
it in the back telescopic jobs if not less.

Bob Campbell

2009-01-03 17:38:21 UTC

Post by Radiola
What's the power output on these transmitters? What type of antenna
is supplied with these units? I could imagine it's one of those stick
it in the back telescopic jobs if not less.

Well, the manual states they are "Transmitting power: 100 MW average", with
"FCC Authorization #DLB5LTT98". However, they put out a *much* stronger
signal than my SSTRAN. On the same frequency the TH completely wipes out
the SSTRAN signal.

The included antenna is much like the SSTRAN's - a 10 foot wire. There is
an "external antenna" available, but these are expensive and therefore rare
to see on eBay.

The big advantage (IMO) over the SSTRAN (and others) is the automatic
frequency/antenna calibration that happens every time you change the
transmit frequency. There is an LED frequency display on the front panel,
and up/down buttons. When you change the frequency, there is a small motor
inside which moves 2 ferrite bars into/out of 2 large inductors to match the
frequency to the antenna. The frequency is settable from 520 to 1700 kHz
in 10 kHz steps.

This is a manual process on other transmitters that I know of, involving
trimming caps and connecting your DVM to test points on the board, to get
the correct reading on your meter.

Radiola

2009-01-29 01:53:13 UTC

I just received another TH unit, one that works, and calibrates.
There is a signal difference compared to what I was using. I've run a
fixed level of audio out of an old Marantz receiver I have into the
DIRECT INPUT section of the back of the set. Good clean sound.

One question, is audio adjustable inside of the TH unit, or is this
only controlled via input?

Thanks,

G

Brenda Ann

2009-01-29 01:59:52 UTC

Post by Radiola
I just received another TH unit, one that works, and calibrates.
There is a signal difference compared to what I was using. I've run a
fixed level of audio out of an old Marantz receiver I have into the
DIRECT INPUT section of the back of the set. Good clean sound.
One question, is audio adjustable inside of the TH unit, or is this
only controlled via input?
Thanks,
G

None of the ones I have have got any meaningful internal adjustments. There
is one pot on the board, it has nothing apparently to do with modulation,
unless it's an adjustment for the limiter (it made no difference as to
increasing a low level input).

Bob Campbell

2009-01-29 02:09:56 UTC

Congratulations! Just curious, what model number?

Post by Radiola
One question, is audio adjustable inside of the TH unit, or is this
only controlled via input?

No internal adjustment that I know of. There are a couple of trimmer pots
in there, but I have never twiddled them. You need to set the level and EQ
on your source device. I am driving mine from computer sound cards and/or
MP3 players, and of course they all have adjustable outputs. Your fixed
level LINE OUT from a stereo receiver might be a problem. You might be
better off getting some plug/cable adapters at Radio Shack and using the
headphone out jack, then you could control the level and tone settings.

Radiola

2009-01-29 02:34:26 UTC

Congratulations! Just curious, what model number?

Post by Radiola
One question, is audio adjustable inside of the TH unit, or is this
only controlled via input?

Bob,

This is the TH 2, much like the first one I got, but without the CAL
issues. I'm impressed so far with the simplicity of operation, and
what seems to be solid performance. What you said makes sense about
the type of input I'm using versus what I can use. I only had spare
cables with two RCA jacks on each end, and that's why I did what I did
tonight just to see how it sounds. I will most likely use the
soundcard or MP3 player method with variable volume control to cut
down on the slight overmodulation I'm experiencing. Even checked this
out for range, and it's close to .5 mile with the indoor antenna
supplied with the set.

As said I have a NON calibrator unit. From what I can see so far it
may be a simple antenna connection compared to the unit I have now
which is working. It's in like new condition, and works like a
charm. Now if I can get a mile's range out of it? LOL. j/k

GB

Bob Campbell

2009-01-29 03:00:51 UTC

Post by Radiola
I will most likely use the
soundcard or MP3 player method with variable volume control to cut
down on the slight overmodulation I'm experiencing. Even checked this
out for range, and it's close to .5 mile with the indoor antenna
supplied with the set.

Yeah, these things have astonishing signal and range from the simple wire
antenna. Much better than the SSTRAN, which I also have. My SSTRAN
barely covers my house, forget a half mile!

Post by Radiola
As said I have a NON calibrator unit. From what I can see so far it
may be a simple antenna connection compared to the unit I have now
which is working. It's in like new condition, and works like a
charm.

You quickly get spoiled by the ease of use of the TH transmitter. Makes the
"get out the meter and manually set DIP switches, then tweak the pot" method
of frequency changing on the SSTRAN seem positively 19th Century!

There is a switch on the back to select the wire antenna (basic) or the
external antenna. I assume yours is set correctly on your non calibrator?

Radiola

2009-01-30 01:33:47 UTC

I will most likely use the
soundcard or MP3 player method with variable volume control to cut
down on the slight overmodulation I'm experiencing. Even checked this
out for range, and it's close to .5 mile with the indoor antenna
supplied with the set.

Yeah, these things have astonishing signal and range from the simple wire
antenna. Much better than the SSTRAN, which I also have. My SSTRAN
barely covers my house, forget a half mile!

As said I have a NON calibrator unit. From what I can see so far it
may be a simple antenna connection compared to the unit I have now
which is working. It's in like new condition, and works like a
charm.

You quickly get spoiled by the ease of use of the TH transmitter. Makes the
"get out the meter and manually set DIP switches, then tweak the pot" method
of frequency changing on the SSTRAN seem positively 19th Century!
There is a switch on the back to select the wire antenna (basic) or the
external antenna. I assume yours is set correctly on your non calibrator?

Switch has been set in both units to the internal, or inclusive
antenna. I haven't dabbled into the other connection yet. I really
did think this was simply a connection for an alternate antenna, like
a long wire or an abandoned broadcast tower (kidding of course). But
from all indications on the newsgroup, not so.

I would like to throw this thing onto my SWR and HF wattmeters that
I've collected through the years from Ham Radio and just see what a
bit of tweaking could do, or use of a more efficient antenna other
than a 10ft piece of wire hanging out the back of the set. I know,
keep it legal. I'm sure the inefficient design was done on purpose.
After all the TH was designed to be heard as you drive up to the house
for sale. But sell one of these units to a Ham Operator? See what
happens. :)

Take care all, and thanks,

Gary

Bob Campbell

2009-01-30 03:29:08 UTC

Post by Radiola
Switch has been set in both units to the internal, or inclusive
antenna. I haven't dabbled into the other connection yet. I really
did think this was simply a connection for an alternate antenna, like
a long wire or an abandoned broadcast tower (kidding of course). But
from all indications on the newsgroup, not so.

Actually, it is. But it is intended to be used with the companion external
antenna unit from TH. Using this connector, the built-in antenna tuning
mechanism is bypassed, and you have to supply your own. The companion
external antenna has this, as do most "real" antennas. The built-in
calibration is strictly for the simple wire antenna, and does very well at
obtaining maximum signal (as you have seen).

Post by Radiola
I would like to throw this thing onto my SWR and HF wattmeters that
I've collected through the years from Ham Radio and just see what a
bit of tweaking could do, or use of a more efficient antenna other
than a 10ft piece of wire hanging out the back of the set.

Please do so, and report your findings! I would love to know the actual
signal strength of these things. There is such a difference between the TH
and the SSTRAN (for example) that either the SSTRAN is way under 100 mw or
the TH is way over 100 mw! Personally I think the TH is over.

Right now listening to The 1920s Radio Network on my Scott Allwave 23 radio,
broadcast via a TH on 630 kHz. Mamie Smith - Goin' Crazy With The Blues
(1926). Sounds fantastic.

Michael A. Terrell

2009-01-30 06:11:09 UTC

Yeah, these things have astonishing signal and range from the simple wire
antenna. Much better than the SSTRAN, which I also have. My SSTRAN
barely covers my house, forget a half mile!

You quickly get spoiled by the ease of use of the TH transmitter. Makes the
"get out the meter and manually set DIP switches, then tweak the pot" method
of frequency changing on the SSTRAN seem positively 19th Century!
There is a switch on the back to select the wire antenna (basic) or the
external antenna. I assume yours is set correctly on your non calibrator?

Switch has been set in both units to the internal, or inclusive
antenna. I haven't dabbled into the other connection yet. I really
did think this was simply a connection for an alternate antenna, like
a long wire or an abandoned broadcast tower (kidding of course). But
from all indications on the newsgroup, not so.
I would like to throw this thing onto my SWR and HF wattmeters that
I've collected through the years from Ham Radio and just see what a
bit of tweaking could do, or use of a more efficient antenna other
than a 10ft piece of wire hanging out the back of the set. I know,
keep it legal. I'm sure the inefficient design was done on purpose.
After all the TH was designed to be heard as you drive up to the house
for sale. But sell one of these units to a Ham Operator? See what
happens. :)

You have a SWR meter calibrated for the broadcast band?
--
http://improve-usenet.org/index.html

aioe.org, Goggle Groups, and Web TV users must request to be white
listed, or I will not see your messages.

If you have broadband, your ISP may have a NNTP news server included in
your account: http://www.usenettools.net/ISP.htm

There are two kinds of people on this earth:
The crazy, and the insane.
The first sign of insanity is denying that you're crazy.

Michael A. Terrell

2009-01-30 06:12:34 UTC